I don’t understand why anyone would pick up a Rogue in 15+ Keys, I sure as hell don’t. They offer literally nothing. A Mage or Hunter is better than a Rogue because they offer Bloodlust. A Warlock is better than a Rogue because they offer Healthstones and Soulstones.
What does a Rogue offer? Literally nothing but a mana sponge for Healers.
And Rogues don’t even have the option to be a Tank or Healer like 90% of the classes. Rogues are literally the bottom of the barrel trash. And before you say something stupid like Rogues offer damage, many other classes can too, even better.
I don’t think you’ve articulated why rogues deserve a premium melee spot at 20+ keys
Fact is they don’t. Replace a Monk there or Fury warrior now. Or get rid of the liable melee spot and replace it with a sturdy range spot that offers party haste.
I will tell you why Its a pretty long so i will be brief.
Not only are outlaw/sub rogues one of the highest overall damage. They are also not cd dependent. Sure a fury warrior can burst really high but the tank needs to pull around their cds. same with ww. Rogues damage are consistent every pull, and are usually brought along with other big cd users to complement that. Damage profile for st and aoe is also very balanced for sub and outlaw, we don’t sacrifice much on either.
we are also one of the safest and durable melee in the game, with abunch of utility which i will list.
Vanish. you can cheese boss mechanics with this that also benefits the group, exp Spear on NO last boss, ravenous leap on fenryr. Its also a pseudo kick when used when a mob target you with cast and it comes with a stun as extra kick.
2)shroud. many inefficient packs can be skipped with shroud. exp: the named panda pair in jade temple right at the start of 2nd boss area. Some routes on AV skips the 2 drak breakers before 3rd boss.
cloak, self explanatory, allows you to literally avoid boss mechanics and survive scary big pulls. Healers love you on tyrannical weeks when you save cloak for the big boss damage.
evasion. makes spiteful a non affix. can cheese many mechanics with it. Fenryr fixate. Gives you uptime on many run out mechanics which you can stand in.
acrobatic strikes. pretty sure we have the longest melee range due to this talent. Perks of being one of the safest melee
feint. not many people realize how good this ability is, especially on high tyrannical keys, often rogues are the only class that can consistently survive outgoing damage due to having feint all on their own.
short cd kicks, with additional stops such as kidney, cheapshot, gauge, blind. 1 rogue can lockdown a single scary mob cast in a large pull alone.
atrophic poison. 3% dr starts to matter in higher keys.
9)cheat death, self explanatory.
mobility via shadowstep, vanish strike, blade rush, hook etc.
If rogues are not good, you wouldnt see so many sitting at top 100io dps role, despite rogue being one of the lower played class overall
Listing basic abilities isnt proving your point.
Sorry, but “BLOODLUST” “HEALTHSTONE” and “SOULSTONES” completely trump everything you just typed out.
Besides, every other class does what you’re claiming but better. Great you can cloak or evasion a mechanic? You can also Aspect of the Turtle, Shadowmeld (an entire race), etc.
I also find it amusing how you defend melee classes and then rebuke yourself by mentioning Rogues are the longest melee range in the game.
It’s call that Rogues need utility buffs.
Can’t tank. Can’t heal. Offers the absolute lowest bare minimum party utility for a DPS-only class.
Fact is, Rogues are the least valuable class in the game. Full stop.
You’ll notice a theme with how blizz balances classes.
All range classes have either brez or lust (or DI in the case of priests). But range classes have less mob control with longer kicks and less CC. And mob control is extremely important, I’m sure we’ve all been in a group with a shadow priest and boomkin that was a struggle because we didn’t have enough kicks available to interrupt deadly casts.
Any melee class that has a brez or lust almost always has far less survivability tools. Enh shaman, feral Druid, dk, pal, survival etc. are all quite squishy compared to rogue, monk, and DH.
Then those classes without brez and lust also usually bring some sort of ancillary utility. Shroud, numbing, etc.
This is why the meta is often filled out with windwalker, rogue, and DH after you pick up a lust and brez. They are actually superior filler classes after you meet your brez and lust check because of their high survivability and unique utility.
While I agree with this, you’re also comparing a pure melee class that doesn’t have the option to tank or heal, with classes that can tank or heal. Shaman, Druid, DK, Pal, etc all classes you just listed fundamentally have better utility than the Rogue class. Right there that puts the pure DPS class at a inherit disadvantage.
It’s irrelevant. You can only fill one role at a time. You asked why you’d bring a rogue, and the reason you bring a rogue boils down to superior survivability, control, and unique utility. It’s why they are almost always in the meta in every mythic plus season, often even when their damage is mediocre.
I mean they’re literally in the meta nearly every single m+ season. I’m not sure how your managing to create this massive fracture between reality and your perceived bias.
Utility isn’t a more=better argument. Rogue has unique utility that is far more valuable than the aggregate of other classes utility, particularly since most utility is shared by other classes and becomes irrelevant in group play, for instance it doesn’t do any good to have two lusts.
Is there any unique utility that has the potential to shave off as much time from a key as shroud? I don’t think there is. Numbing is also a unique utility that is absurdly powerful in high level keys, which is why almost every high level group runs a rogue.