Im trying to find out what is the differences between the 3 rogue trees. What is the biggest playstyle difference in each
I know everyone will say go combat its the best, or nobody will take you if your not combat, or your doing it wrong if your not combat, but im not looking for that.
Im looking for a description of what makes each different.
Like assasination uses poisons, but what does assasination have that makes the poison better than say sub.
Im really trying to understand the differences between the trees, so i can decide which tree based on my play preferences
You can look at a Rogue guide on Wowhead.
Assassination is primarily about burst. That’s what you spec into it for (especially with Cold Blood for an instant crit), and it has a talent that improve poisons by increasing their application. Combat is about efficiency and DPS, and has the strongest cooldown for Rogues in PvE which is Adrenaline Rush. Subtlety is about utility and is strong for PvP.
I took a look at that site earlier. Unfortunately they have a very narrow description. basically this is bad/good for raids. This is a good build or that is a good build.
I honestly don’t care about raiding or pvp. Those generalized guides typically focus on describing why one is better vs just describing what makes each different
What are you asking for specifically, then? What each talent does and how it affects the class, or what each tree is generally for? Because I already gave you the latter and the former you can get from reading the tooltip.
1 Like
If you don’t care about raiding or pvp what are you planning on doing? Sub will probably be better for 5 mans so you can get improved sap and combat for questing and farming. Honestly if that’s all you want to do though other classes will give you a better overall experience than rogue will.
Im mostly looking for a description of how they are played differently. like combat is toe to toe, sub requires stealth to be effective because of ambush and you need daggers.
That is as far as i could find on my research. Almost nothing on how assasination differs
Assassination relies on daggers too, so it isn’t very good for solo play. If you’re looking for the most flexible solo build it’s definitely Combat.
1 Like
Is this an accurate explanation for each
Combat: fight toe to toe with your enemies. Requires swords or daggers, or maces
Sub: fight from behind enemies, requires daggers. Always have to start from stealth to be effective
Assassin: fight from behind but relies on crits to do double points so you can get more finishing moves faster. Poison does more damage vs other specs
Is this accurate and am i missing anything
1 Like
Basically. The talent trees are clear on that. Combat is 100% a PvE tree, and is always the best for that. Assassination is about burst and is solid in 1v1 PvP (and for nuking healers), but relies on cooldowns and it also relies on stealth for Ambush (or Cheap Shot/Garrote) and daggers. It also isn’t comparable DPS to Combat Swords until late Naxx gear levels. Subtlety is purely a PvP spec (Hemo is okay but not great) and is about utility and control in a PvP scenario.
Sounds about right to me.
I personally use a hybrid build that … I don’t think is found in any guides or builds. It has a little from each tree with a focus on Subtlety. If I were able to post links I’d show ya on a calculator, but I can’t because I don’t post enough to be on that trust level I guess.
Basically I’ve got points in Assassination down to 30% increased crit dmg and the 2 points into Remorseless (for the 40% crit chance after killing an enemy) and 5% baseline crit. In Combat I’ve got down to hit % chance and the 30% backstab crit chance. In Subtlety I have the 45% Ambush crit, improved stealth talents, and serrated blades.
So when I’m out killing you add the 10% base crit from just my gear + 5% from Assassination talent + 40% from Remorseless when I kill an enemy + 45% from subtlety and boom. I’m opening on mobs with a 100% chance to crit on my Ambush (that ignores a % of target’s armor due to serrated blades) and doing anywhere from 800-1200 depending on mob health and armor.
It makes grinding go pretty quickly, and if / when I ever do find myself in a group I have the improved backstab to help with DPS.
I’ve leveled my rogue to 50 and I’ll give you my opinion. Most guides recommend that you go 31 into Combat to get Adrenaline Rush and Blade Flurry, and for good reason…those are both insane cooldowns. Blade Flurry is our only source of AoE, and Adrenaline Rush can help you pump out really good dps. Sub has some nice QoL traits, and Assassination has some nice traits as well, but neither are as good as Combat for pure dps.
IMO, though, it’s not about the trees, but moreso the weapons. Do you want to play swords or daggers? Do you want to face enemies and damage them, or do you want to sneak up behind them and ambush/backstab them?
Swords are easier to level with, and that’s why most people recommend using a combat swords build. Also, good swords seem to be easier to find than good daggers. I’ve tried both, and I can agree that combat swords is very nice to level with, but daggers are fun too. I started with a backstab build and swapped to combat swords halfway through…and I have no regrets.
The only build I would recommend for leveling aside from the Combat Swords build would be 31 Sub/20 Combat (or some variant)…Preparation is super fun and can save your butt, while having improved stealth and sap are great as well. This build will give you a lot of utility but sacrifice damage…and that sounds like what you are looking for. I would prioritize Blade Flurry and Riposte though, because those traits are simply way too important to ever pass on…in any build.
I’ve had groups ask if I had blade flurry for dungeon runs and honestly there is no need for sub in 5 man’s as cc is unnecessary, especially while leveling.
If you like daggers and the other specs that’s cool and all but you will have a much easier time leveling combat swords.
1 Like
Yeah deep sub is about cc only huh? Three openers on any boss fight is bad dps? Backstab crits almost as high as ambushes and at max level being able to cross spec into lethality 5/5 making it that much more effective.
With full bleed openers I still pull aggro from every tank. There isn’t higher single target if you do sub right.
Some serious disinformation happening.
2 Likes
Please link your spec. I like the sound of it!
Yikes, some bad explanations here lol.
Subtlety is all about the opener.
Combat is all about sustained damage.
Assassination is all about the finisher.
Badabing badaboom. You’re welcome.
3 Likes
This is the build that I use for my Rogue(s).
17/21/13
https:// classic . wowhead . com/talent-calc/rogue/015320105-32005521020001-5002501
I would not describe it as particularly effective at anything other than perhaps grinding/farming. However, I do like it for what I tend to use my Rogue(s) for: farming/grinding/mining/skinning. Any Rogue spec can work in PVP, depending on how you intend to play.
I appreciate the post. I dont quite under the points in the sub tree.
The only thing you really gain is faster stealth, less likely seen and ghostly strike. Would seal fates work better for a crit build?
I am a big fan of reduced cooldowns and moving faster in stealth.
Ghostly Strike isn’t needed, but there aren’t many places to put that last point that add more to the spec than GS does (which isnt much).
No, not quite accurate.
Anything “fight from behind” means daggers. Sub spec doesn’t require daggers at all. Hemo does actual weapon damage (it’s not normalized) so it benefits from having a big slow MH weapon. Sub tree also has lots of things that help solo play.
To break down how the trees “play”, it’s more like this:
Assassination: Relies heavily on crits, so daggers (and positioning) are key.
Combat: Focused on Mana efficiency. Lots of white damage.
Subtlety: Not really a dagger spec esp. at low levels, since you have to put points into other trees for imp backstab and others. Lots of utility in this spec, good for PvP and soloing.
1 Like
I can say to you how I see the trees
Assassination: Focus on Finish Moves, critical strikes and poison. Is the tree with more talents that improve Finish moves and have a some of them to relieve the energy costs and combo points overall.
Combat: Is the “warrior” rogue, the duelist. Have multiples points on 1on1 survival and is the only with weapon Specialization. They focus is the white dmg and sustained damage.
Subtlety: Focus mostly in openers and increase the stealth. Mostly for pvp, because you don’t need much stealth in raids, you can go deep for Prepa or at least put some points on MoD and Camouflage for secure the open in fight and reset potential.
Any of this trees can be used with any weapon, but some combination will lead to obvious choices.