Rogue Talents Dragonflight Preview

Community WoW Community Council
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Blizzard had posted a full rundown of how the re-imagined talent system would look like for Rogues in Dragonflight, and I wanted to get this thread started.

Going to copy the same types of questions from other talent threads and post below.

  • How do you feel the new talent system fits the Rogue class overall?
  • If you have any concerns, what are your biggest concerns?
  • What about the new design do you like the most?
  • Do you feel like this will make Rogues play differently than they do now?
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Going to preface this as I’m not an end game Rogue player at all in PVE or PVP, but do enjoy it as a nice break from my main, and do prefer Outlaw over the others.

How do you feel the new talent system fits the Rogue class overall?

  • Base Rogue
    • The first talents for each spec feels very in line for what the Spec’s theme is, except Blind for Outlaw. I know its the first talent and all spec’s can choose it, but feels odd that we have to talent into it now, when it was a baseline ability for all specs since Classic (AFAIK)
  • Outlaw
    • Thinking from a leveling point of view, I see the friendliness of being a new player having the option to play it safe and focus one target at a time with Opportunity vs a more experienced player and Blade Furry. Eventually you’ll get both, but it feels good to pick and choose what you want first.

If you have any concerns, what are your biggest concerns?

  • My biggest concern is why Assasssination Rogues and Subtlety Rogues have a Shadowstep talent, when it’s baked in the Rogue Class talent tree on Row 4? Is that a placeholder talent and something else will take its place, or are the two Shadowstep talents in Sub and Assasssination the placeholder and something else will take its place? If the latter, what is the thought process in that?

  • Thistle Tea, although excited to see it back, I am not sure how good it would be in a PVE build, but can see a benefit to needing full energy for a burst combo in PVP during specific situations.

  • Does Fleet Footed from the Rogue tree and Hit and Run from the Outlaw tree stack?

  • Sap and it’s Talents

    • Rushed Setup, Improved Sap, and Outlaws Dirty Tricks. I understand wanting to reduce the cost of these abilities, but seems excessive to have 3 talents that can affect it, especially where Dirty Tricks negates the effects of Rushed Setup when chosen. Why reduce the cost of Sap and Cheap Shot, when I can use it for free?

What about the new design do you like the most?

  • If Shadowstep is indeed correctly placed in the Rogue talent tree, I am intrigued at the idea of a Shadowstep Outlaw rogue, especially when they can choose Grappling Hook already.

Do you feel like this will make Rogues play differently than they do now?

  • Yeah I feel that we can see some wild builds that we currently can’t do on retail. I’m especially excited to see the Outlaw builds using traditional Assa abilities like Shadowstep, Shadow Dance and Subterfuge.
  • I’m excited to see Thistle Tea and Cold Blood back as well, especially after playing Classic for some time.
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No comments on that.

  1. Kidney Shot combined with 2 x Deeper Stratagem or Echoing Reprimand.
    It’s just too strong.
    It’s already too strong in Shadowlands with it being 7 seconds of undispellable stun with the Deeper Stratagem talent, this talent tree seems to indicate that Kidney Shot will be able to last 8 seconds with 7 combo points total. Regardless of how this will affect balance, 8 seconds of stun is the peak of unfun for everyone being on the receiving end of such a ridiculous ability.
  2. Way too much baseline utility. The class talent tree has everything. Shadow dance, Deeper stratagem, gouge, garrote silence, shadow step, Master Poisoner, Improved Wound, Numbing Poison… It’s simply too much.

I like having talent trees back, not much more to say about it other than that. I won’t really be satisfied until they get rid of Specializations altogether but it’s a step in the right direction in my book, so long as they can keep it balanced, but looking at this tree, it isn’t looking very good on the balancing side.

It makes them way too strong for PvP from what I can see from the current available talent tree previews.

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To preface: I do not play Subtlety. I have done it in PvP and that’s about it. I don’t like how it plays, it’s one of my least favorite specs (bottom 3 with Feral and Affliction) - so I won’t talk about it. I’m sure it’s just me being dumb and unable to understand how it works properly, but all the guides I’ve seen are too complex and my brain can’t retain the info lol.

I also haven’t played Assassination in Shadowlands because Shiv ruined the fun of the rotation for me lol.

So with all that, I will give my basic thoughts when I glance over it. (Similar to my thoughts on Death Knights, and Warrior when they come out) These are classes I don’t usually play, but I do know them enough to have thoughts, even if they aren’t always popular thoughts. They won’t be in depth, just quick glance thoughts. I fully expect the people who play rogues actively to give more in depth thoughts.

Improved Sap is placed very oddly - why is a CC ability I wager most people do not want to grab locking potent skills like Marked for Death behind it? To make it even weirder - Outlaw still has the talent that reduces the energy cost of it. So… why?

Shadow Dance is a subtlety identity move - why is it in the Class Tree?

I’m very glad Echoing Reprimand is back for Outlaw. It was the only thing that’s gotten me to like Outlaw and made it genuinely fun to play for me.

Did… you guys take away the “Free Pistol Shot from Sinister Strike Double Strike” talent and replace it with a weaker version, that’s almost at the end of the tree? O_o What an odd choice.

Can we just talk about the fact you made it possible for rogues to spec into an 8 second Kidney Shot? How on Earth do you think that’s acceptable? Lmao. (This is being talked about a lot on the discords I’m in)

I can see Improved Shiv is back and not optional for Assassination. (It locks every mandatory ability behind it pretty much lol) So that cements I won’t touch that spec this expac, I know people love it, but this feels like it would’ve been the perfect player choice talent cause it alters the rotation enough.

Why is Shadow Dance in both the class and spec tree? Do subtlety have to spec into both to get the 2 charges they’re used to now? If so, that feels really… gross.

All that said - why was Sepsis retained for all 3 specs? I can understand Assassination, but it’s so out of place for the other 2. And from what I remember when I was starting my rogue and visiting the Rogue Discord for covenant thoughts, it’s not a well liked Covenant Skill.

But yea, much like DK, not much thoughts on it as they aren’t classes I play often - likewise, the same will occur with Warrior. I shall leave it up to the CC members who play it - the class forums, etc. to give adequate feedback, but I still wanted to give thoughts from someone who doesn’t actively play them, as I like to believe feedback from people who don’t is helpful to get insight on why.