Crimson vial is a basically useless heal for a 30 second cooldown especially in any element of pvp and that’s including talents like recuperator and iron stomach being utilised as well.
Almost every single class in the game can completely out sustain rogues in a 1v1 scenario all except for maybe hunters and mages and even then they may be better specced to out sustain rogues.
I always believed that what separated rogues from other classes was its diverse toolkit and general versatility however I would argue that almost all classes are not so far behind from the current rogues toolkit alongside better sustain.
So now the real question is: alone how good even are rogues. How can we compare against most of the other classes in the game.
12 Likes
Huge learn to play issue
21 Likes
You can cripple their sustain and if you think CV is your only way to sustain yourself then you need to review your moves.
1 Like
After reviewing talents and abilities for outlaw rogue I still disagree. Running iron stomach, recuperator, leeching poison but not soothing darkness is still such poor sustain, being solely reliant on crimson vial with a 30s cooldown in PvP is brutal and the little leech I can acquire whether with enchanting and an rng grand melee roll the bones buff is still a viable but unreliable way to sustain in PvP.
I’m no balance expert however I reckon crimson vial should somehow be incorporated into restless blades at least to a minor degree.
Now i’m not suggesting that outlaw rogue is by any means a weak class but I am saying that in comparison to a majority of classes their self sustain is noticeably inferior.
Buy max stacks of bandages and always look to eat your mage’s food. C’est le jeu, my friend.
2 Likes
I can understand the frustration, but the sustain of rogue is the ability to control the fight and get out of sticky situations.
Same with windwalker monk - sure they can heal but they heal for pitiful amounts and if you expect to be able to face tank things while healing, you are going to get destroyed. If you watch high ranked rogue players you’ll see how to utilize your skills to survive crazy situations.
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i feel pretty tanky between cloak/evas/feint/crimsonvial/leech
sometimes i look around and half the raid is dead while i had no issues feeling healthy.
*oh snap, pvp, i wouldnt know.
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Hunters outsustain rogues? What with our 30% heal every 2 minutes? Get out
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Our sustain seems fine. You won’t survive if you’re targeted in a group and you don’t have healers on you, but if we’re talking about just going toe to toe with other classes rogue is more than fine with everything we have at our disposal. There are a few classes where the balance is in the other classes favor (warlock seems to lol at us trying to kill them) but almost everyone else I think is killable if you understand both classes and when to cc/burst/run etc. I don’t play any other class so I get smashed sometimes just because I’m unaware of what other classes can do, but it never feels unfair it seems more like a lack of knowledge of how those classes work than us being inferior.
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I’m just making my rounds around to every class forum. And it appears that literally every class/spec is underperforming, needs a rework and everybody mad.
But I had to comment on this post cause WTF man lol. You want the freedom to pick and choose your fight, have the highest burst and CC in the game and you want sustained healing while already having more than other classes. What is wrong with you.
After making the rounds, No wonder Blizz devs don’t read the forums or take its advice, I suggest everyone reading this go take the class forum world tour. It is eye opening…
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Rogues aren’t supposed to have self-sustain. They’re rogues. Go roll a pally.
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you know what would be awesome for rogue self sustain? getting their dodge back.
remember back in vanilla when 30% dodge was common because agility was more than just attack power? those were fun days.
except for getting crit by overpower…
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What? I’m consistently the last dps standing in wipes - we have an amazing survival kit.
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I’m talking about arena here and in 2v2’s its basically a forced burst playstyle or a forced healer comp. I’ve said that mages, hunters and maybe even monks after further review are also lacking in self sustain, however, watching the warlock which is very obviously over tuned, heal half its health back with ease is exactly what I’m talking about.
And it is not only limited to warlocks but warriors as well, a class that makes no sense having self sustain similar to rogues, mages and hunters can seemingly burst half its health back in the arena, not to mention demon hunters inbuilt leech. It’s the fact that classes like these can seemingly out sustain rogue’s burst whilst outputting as much DPS which confuses me. And I understand classes can counter each other, it just feels so one sided at times when sustain is a key factor.
It just seems that as an outlaw there doesn’t seem to be any outplay for a class that can sustain through burst and no counter play for anything that applies DoT’s.
Once our defensives are popped we truly are sitting ducks which is similar to mages and hunters as well which is how it should be, however it just seems to just apply to a few other classes less so.
Our kit is great and we obviously shouldn’t have infinite self healing but when compared to these classes at least in the element of sustain are we really not severely lacking?
Hunters - actually got their self sustain buffed from what it used to be not to mention 15% leech passive from pet.
Mages - i mean were do i begin with their arsenal who needs healing.
Monks - Hands down probably best class far as sustain and utility atm.
Rogues phial -_- okay how about they just revert “Soothing Darkness” to what it used to be and will be good.
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Just pop evasion before you come out of stealth, be sure to vanish before it falls off in 10s.
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Faint often and use abilities before things happen in an anticipated function rather than reactive. We aren’t supposed to be durable.
Counter offer- recupe comes back and all the other crap goes away so FW can go back to 50% and all other rogue abilities can hit hard instead of leaning on reprimand and such .
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Mages have the same style on survival as rogues. CC, mobility, and utility. Mages are very squishy and can blow up in an instant if they aren’t smart. Rogues are the same. They can cloak and vanish and remove all debuffs while stealthing. Then you can out of combat heal and wait for cool downs.
Rogues are consistently good in pvp through most every expansions and they’ve never been known for sustain.
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Well, I wouldn’t do that! Evasion removes Stealth!
You wont be able to use an opener. 
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I think sprint is a defensive cooldown too; with all the slowly effects in pvp, you easily run behind LoS and restealth.
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