Rogue Sap Bug Fix? Or Drinks Never Possible?

PVP Arenas
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Player versus Player

  • Rogue

  • Rogues can no longer sometimes re-enter stealth earlier than intended after killing another player.

  • Arena

    • Players now must always cast escape abilities before leaving combat (e.g. Vanish and Shadowmeld).
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Late to the party, my man.
It has been discussed in another post.
It’s just terrible wording, it’s just a bug fix for random stealths.

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Seems like they are trying to fix the sap bug

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Sap bug fix.

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I wonder if this is going to be back to wotlk-cata somewhat reliable combat states, or post cata, MoP to Present increasingly volatile and chaotic combat states.

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The real question is how many rogue/Mage teams are gonna drop rating with this bug finally fixed :thinking:

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Was sap bugging really that rampant? This is the modern sap bug that was basically the old night elf combat bug but even more randomly affected everyone, yeah?

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Seen my healer get chain Sapped out of a Blind or Polymorph, as well as I’ve seen people get Sapped into a Gpyro, into a Sap directly after it lands, to be Gpyro’d a second time.

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That’s normal. That’s literally, completely how sap is supposed to work. Combat lasts 5.5-6 seconds give or take. Blind and Polymorph both last 8. (and don’t give +combat as of cataclysm.)

This has also been around as of cata, but I don’t know if it’s a bug or “clever use of mechanics.”

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Also, since you just got Gladiator, time to get a refresher on the basics of combat states.

+Combat

Your character will enter a combat state after interacting with any hostile target. This includes indirectly, for example healing or giving a beneficial effect to a teammate who has has entered combat with a hostile.

Combat state falls naturally after having no interaction other players who are in combat for 5-6 seconds.

What this means is certain behaviour in PVP can lead to you inadvertently dropping your combat state, for example being counterspelled, and hiding behind a pillar. Or being in a stun, but not actively being the target of hostile actions. ( Including: AoE, Auto Attacks, Targeted Spells, hostile pets Pets, & certain Azurite and Trinket Proc effects) (Not including: Your previously applied heal over time effects on other players, Damage over time effects that aren’t being refreshed.) And finally, the more common and guaranteed unless outside action is taken / a pet is involved, sitting CC that’s equal to or longer than 6 seconds.

If you’re playing a class with a pet, permanent or summoned, if your pet is in combat, you too, are in combat.

Edit: No flame. If you got gladiator without knowing this, it’s 2019, who cares.

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Well, that just makes me think that they still don’t understand the real problem.

Druids can also enter stealth immediately after killing someone if they have this bug. My human warrior could mount immediately after killing someone since he had this bug. It’s not a rogue fix it is a combat state bug that can effect any race and any class.

It’s just not consistent who it effects and it obviously has the most benefit for druids and rogues.

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Although you can sit in shadowmeld and have your pet basic attack people without dropping shadowmeld. :slight_smile:

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If you get CC’d in combat, you should remain in Combat until 6 seconds after said CC ends. It’s bad enough that you can be Feared out of range of your allies, so you can’t re-initiate combat, into a Sap, but you should never be forced to sit an 8 second CC that you can’t avoid, just to be put out of combat, into an immediate full Sap chain.

Skillful plays are cool, but skillful plays shouldn’t be uncounterable.

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Maybe dont let the rogue get a re when ur healer is cc’d? Seems pretty counterable to me…

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That would be pretty absurd. That would turn rogues sap into a almost completely rng based ability outside of the start of a game.
As nobody’s going to sit around twiddling their thumbs for 6 seconds after leaving CC. The only time rogue would ever land sap is organically, through people drinking, or pillaring too long. Which is way too chaotic, as you don’t want to just waste the DR randomly, you want to start rotating CC when people are coming off / off stun DR’s. Which is why the counterplay, which does exist, is so important. I shouldn’t be explaining this to a gladiator, but sap is the most scripted, predictable cc in the game.

That’s why this bug is such a problem.

They’re perfectly counterable. Everyone knows the rogue is likely going to try to sap out of his blind. The counterplay is for your teammates to have the awareness to stop the rogue from sapping off, through hard or soft CC of their own.

You know what they should do Jawah? (Yaweh or Jawa from starwars?) Is they should remove subterfuge.

Subterfuge is the additional safety net they added in MoP that allows rogues to continue using stealth abilities (such as sap) for 3 seconds after they’ve been taken out of stealth (by using a stealth ability, or having action taken against their stealth, namely damage.) Losing subterfuge would mean no more cross-stuns from assassination rogues. And likely less saps, although i’d assume the majority of those are vanish.

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