Rogue nerf

WoW Classic Season of Discovery
102

Combat daggers wasn’t THAT far off mutilate in the earlier PTR testing while saber slash still wasn’t competing with daggers, since the patch today I can do more with slaughter from the shadows and cutthroat, 30 energy backstab/frontstab with ambush chucked in works well for multiple playstyles.

As fun as it was to spam mutilate on a cloth wearer and if 3 didnt kill then the 4th would, it 100% needed the nerfs it got, the nerfs to envenom feel rough but theres still a whole 10 levels to gain before people have any justification to cry about this sht, I was doing 400~ dps on 52 elites with mutilate/deadly brew and envenom, closer to 500 with backstab/ambush and not really using anything other than snd as a finisher - Paired with the energy gains 30 energy backstab/ambush FEELS funner to play and the dps feels pretty alright where it is too. In classic most dagger rogue damage came from backstab and melee swings, not finishers, it’s smoothbrain to not think that half energy backstab with thrown in ambush procs won’t be equally as strong

Saber slash builds in bis gear are simming close to mutilate builds too (still above 4k single target) - the fk are we really complaining about here?

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103

It feels TERRIBLE right now.

A fully geared BIS rogue should not only be doing 350 dps to a level 48 mob.

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104

Sounds like a skill issue because I do more than that in my bis gear lmao

105

I find rogues the easiest class to kill in PVP on era, and they are even worse on SoD, not sure why they nerf rogues that much but smells like retail pure class hate.

What most hybrid players don’t understand is the nature of the class and why its fun; this is exactly why hybrids being as damage dominant as they are in SoD turns off a lot of people and why PVP is so garbo and why no one Q’s for BG’s.

What’s the point of even playing a pure class now if you can do better on a hybrid like a shaman.

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106

It’s not a pure class in SoD. :wink:

107

The second they made rogue tanks they became hybrids as well.

108

Basically there is no such thing in reality, but Shaman, Druid, Paladin, Priest and in a disgusting way now Mage are all “hybrids”.

Game is scuffed, IMO they should have built this whole thing on the Wrath client and then “Tweaked” that since its a better place for these developers to begin since its got most of the stuff they seem to want in game already.

109

ROFLMAO… just keep the misinformation coming alliance. /smh

110

Bit of an update. Out in the world BS / Ambush with Slaughter from the Shadows + Cutthroat with an 11 / 8 / 22 build feels much better than Mutilate. It won’t do enough dps to be raid viable, but it has a place. Farming. Stealthing. It will likely also be better in dungeons when fights don’t last as long.

I wish a build with BS / Ambush could be raid viable, but at least I can play something not Mutilate open world.

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111

I literally quit soon as I discovered muti was literally 2X better than backstab… No point in playing a rogue when the spam button mutilate is BiS. Hopefully nerf Muti more.

Backstab could use its base energy reduced by 10 (excluding the rune)

Additionally cut the cost on Slice, Rupture, EV all by 10, and buff slice up to the 40 -50% haste range.

Additionally increase base duration of Slice.

112

Realistically, BS just needs access to deadly brew + slaughter from the shadows + cutthroat and I think it would out dps Mutilate in both their current forms. Blizzard seems very hesitant to do that though.

113

Well its obvious, has been for years. Blizzard hates rogues.

114

Blockquote Combat daggers wasn’t THAT far off mutilate in the earlier PTR testing

Can you elaborate what this means, because combat daggers should have been using mutilate anyways. Do you mean combat daggers, as backstab with cutthroat? I’m not sure what you mean by combat daggers.

Blockquote I was doing 400~ dps on 52 elites with mutilate/deadly brew and envenom

No offense, I know for some sod rogues this may be there first time interacting with mutilate builds, but mutilate is a ramping spec that requires a lot of uptime to get reliable DPS readings.

Why? Things like focused attacks scale double with mutilate, and if you aren’t hitting a target for over 60 seconds, or even 2 minutes, then you cannot get a proper reading for mutilate builds. Mutilate builds ALWAYS read lower dps until you hit something long enough. Envenom as well. You need many envenoms to benefit from the increased poison proc, which again, mutilate strikes twice, therefore scaling very well with envenom. You also need plenty of auto attacks and SND uptime for focused attacks/envenom buffs to scale into proper dps reading. Another thing, if you dont have SND when you envenom, you’re losing poison procs. Again, this is spec/class/ability was based HEAVILY on ramping. It’s what also keeps mutilate relevant in pve without being overpowered in pvp. It’s a really simple formula that’s been around since wotlk, so don’t try to argue this.

So all in all, if you aren’t raid buffed hitting a boss for a while, then your dps observations are terrible and shouldn’t be used for data, especially as mutilate.

Combat, on the other hand, is backwards. You pop CDs early and bring in massive raid burst(or, instead of early, during phases) and “early” dps while mutilate brings better “late” dps. Combat has the ability to not lose much dps from target swapping, while mutilate very much prefers patchwerk type fights because it loses so much by having to stop combat/switch targets.

Think of mutilate as a timer, relying on a timer, that relies on another timer, to do it’s dps, while combat just needs to have it’s cds up, and maybe slice. If one timer falls incorrectly on mutilate, all the other timers lose a large dps as well. It’s like each affliction warlock debuff buffing the next debuff by 20%, and the next buffing them by 40%, etc etc.

115

Shamans haven’t been tanky since they took away WoE.

116

Yes, i agree. vanilla rogue is much better than SoD