Yes but other specs also have stuns, ranged one too.
That thing is useful but its not group utility, and its niche at best for some mechanics
What im saying is taht Rogue doesnt offer much group utility, almost none, thats why Smoke Bomb would fix this easily.
What I am saying is that rogue has other strengths that outweigh its lack of group utility. “I want to beat both rock and scissors”, doesn’t make for a very good design.
Please do list the other strengths that outweigh its lack of group utility … keep in mind , it has to be something EXCLUSIVE to rogue , that also benefits a 20man raid .
Good dps ? Other classes too
Good Burst ? Other classes too
Threat redirection ? Other classes too
Self heal ? Other classes too
Shroud ? Other classes too , invis potion are a thing and actually work better than shroud (they are foolproof unlike shround)
Ive played a rogue for a very very long time and without smokebomb , we don’t bring a raid utility like every other classes does … not saying its hard to get in a group has a rogue just saying i would love a list of its strengths you seem to mention so proudly while being against rogue getting smokebomb back for pve or some other form of raid utility !
Theres always THAT one guy that didnt move with the group and falls behind, wasting the Shroud
Thats literally all you need.
There is no shortage of spots for dps in raids if you are topping the meter.
This is a stupid argument mate.
Less stupid than you must have utility or you wont get an invite.
Yawn aint asking for a raid spot or something to get in a raid easier , asking for utility … 2 way different thing , also don’t quote me if you ain’t reading it all …
You forgot to read this part : “not saying its hard to get in a group has a rogue”
I would like to see you make a thread saying that DPS should lose all utility cause all they need is DPS.
I read it all. I quoted what was relevant.
Thats what quotes are for.
Apparently you did not , because you mention something thats irrelevant in what i replied to this thread 
You should really buff yourself with intellect m8.
TLDR of all the replies from me : We had smokebomb , no reason to not get it back when other dps also have good utilities . Nothing to do with raid spots .
He cant, DPS dont have utility so he cant use his Arcane Intellect.
Cheesing entire mechanics on a boss is not “niche.” That’s the kind of utility that guarantees you a spot. And yes other classes have mobile immunities, but only one is as fast as you, so raid groups will need multiple.
why?
Look at the sum of the whole and not individual components in isolation.
I am not specifically against rogue getting raid utility, I am concerned about the utility arms race though, where one class gets one thing so another class needs something else.
I am also not convinced that rogues need raid utility just “because”… you already say you are not suffering for raid spots… which cooldowns do we increase or add more/shared stun DRs to or where would you suggest we depower rogues to accommodate increasing their raid utility (edit as by your own admission they have an abundance of power in M+ and pvp)?
How about if we just reduce rogues physical damage 5% across the board, then give them expose armour which applies a 5% increased physical damage taken?
So um, what do you actually want?
Not everybody needs to be brought for utility in raids, their toolkit is one of the strongest for M+, and PvP, they don’t need to shine in raiding either, they have enough utility, and do enough damage to be well worth bringing in a raiding environment, you just won’t be bringing them specifically for that utility.
Lotta non-mythic people going on about how rogues are fine in raids, but you don’t really see the issues until you do content that requires min-maxing.
A rogue is a waste of a spot unless your roster is short-handed in Mythic raiding. You literally offer nothing that another class can’t do better.
You don’t need to be top dps or have group utility to be useful, otherwise there would be no second mage or second warrior in a raid. They will not invite you for group utility, but they will still invite you.
This one is false, due to Rallying Cry
Take it this way , what if you lose double jump ,glide and all the nifty things that makes DH unique , thats how rogue felt when we lost gouge and smokebomb among other nifty things that made us unique . We already lost a lot of flavor when they made monk and dh .
And like this one said …
Why should rogue lose something to get what they had back ?