Hello i dont play rogue but i can only feel compassion toward rogue players right now. They definitively need some fixing. Ive never seen a class this weak before and ive been playing wow for years.
10 Likes
I’ve never seen it this bad. It’s beyond terrible. I cancelled my subscription. I really didn’t have many options. I have other toons but, I only want to play my Rogue and nothing else. I was below the tank in 3 or 4 mythics. I mean, I really don’t even want to talk about …
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Why does no one ever point out that Paladins essentially have combo points now too, only they effectively have infinite energy in rogue terms.
Like why am I waiting on energy when all of my abilities do less damage than abilities that… don’t cost anything…?
The whole thing is just so bad lmao and completely without logic or use of common sense precedent.
Gee, I wonder why in DF Season 4, 9.4% of all M+ was Ret Pally, while 0.3% was Sub Rogue.
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Not really the same a lot of pally ability either have charges or a set CD
For PVE Ret was killing it before Pre-Patch broke the spec and now its maybe closer to middle of the road in performance, but still easier to play than rogue specs.
In PVP having stealth, vanish, disarm, smoke bomb, MS, strong slow, instant mobility, instant mobility damage from Shadowstrike, always walking faster than Ret, way more CC that remains when a target receives damage, and snatching enemies and taking them to the shadow realm, are important tools that keep Rogues useful for pvp over all but the best Rets on Earth.
In pvp Ret deals with Forbearance and most defensives are dispelled or stolen, and Steed and Avenging Wrath are CC magnets. If a Ret BoPs anyone Blessing of Spellwarding (or vise versa) goes on cooldown also for the same 4-5min and Blessing of Spellwarding wards 0 spells that are crowd control, it wont make CC spells miss or fail to function like Cloak of Shadows.
I want Assassination and Subtlety to be good so I can stop playing MM and Ret.
1 Like
Ah yes, I forgot rogue has no cooldowns. lol?
Its literally the same, no need for mental gymnastics here.
Wake of Ashes has a whopping 30 second cooldown, does insane damage, and is a builder not even a spender.
2 Likes
eyikes.
Also up until 2450 pally has better representation in PvP, and its a tiny amount of people trying to push that high and beyond. So in reality, ret is better for PvP
Countering Ret is as scipted as Subtlety’s win condition.
Lose as Ret, press wings, catch slows and stuns until it ends while you’re kited or killed, press Steed get slowed or feared or stunned until it ends, use bubble, BoP, gets dispelled or they kite well with instant mobilty until it ends then they kill you.
Win condition for Sub, know your key binds, keep target stun locked or silenced, additional smoke bomb and blind healer so you get to do your thing more likely unopposed.
Ret thrives in large team fights if left alone
Rogue is more of a sneaky stun lock cap, focus one person keeping them CCed until they die or the Rogues teammates get enough kills to have a numbers advantage.
For arena Ret is ok, in a good players hands. Less targets to simultaneously CC when they try to dispell your LOONG CD defensives that also applied Forbearance.
The history of Sub is with another slippery cc happy partner, lock down everyone for 3 seconds and nuke one guy, hide, repeat. It works.
1 Like
I feel exactly the same, ive unsubbed till PvP or Rogue is actually playable. All of season 4 in DF i saw many 3 sub rogues the whole time. They need to put burst metas back into the game. SL had the best PvP it was almost perfect.
2 Likes
There was a point in systemlands where PVP was too slow like BFA. But that was because some specs were abusing tanks trinkets in PVP. But yes systemlands seemed more healthier than DF in terms of class balance.
Brolinka was still here during systemlands and why he wanted PVP to feel like MoP and it was close.
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I agree with you 
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Prepatch observations:
- Armor values are increased on live (50% as an example for leather)
- Rogues haven’t been unnnerfed in pvp, the bump up in armor is to normalize damage a bit across all physical classes however it is odd casters didn’t get a similar treatment
TWW observations:
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Versatility isn’t as high in S1 and probably why armor was boosted so high starting here in prepatch.
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Some armor / versatility combination is being worked on likely to find a middle ground, not to mention lots of classes have multiple impactful Defensive abilities in TWW and life pools are extended further but is relative to what we can hit for which is fine.
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Outlaw joins the fray in TWW with armor penetration with fatebound at least and they can at least have access to increased damage through trickster where it will probably normalize itself out where the devs have an idea of how they want to have Outlaw be able to do pretty well but not run over plate like cloth.
TLDR: It is prepatch, prepatch is like leveling again and nothing is to be taken seriously. It’s not fun but it’s better than BFA where we immediately were nerfed because people wouldn’t shut up about rogues and the devs cut us quickly.
Head up and eyes forward fellow rogues.
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Have they actually acknowledged the armor change in any way? I know we’re assuming it’s because it’ll balance out in TWW, but playing with this for a month is absolutely brutal on Outlaw. I would really like to see a temporary buff just until the expansion actually releases. I’m fine with them not nerfing the overperforming specs in a prepatch meta, but having entire specs that are just unplayable because “don’t worry it’ll be better in a month!” seems really silly when they held off entire talent tree reworks until TWW for specs that won’t see the full benefit of it until they’re level 80. It’s especially bad when the matchmaking system doesn’t do anything to acknowledge this and puts 3 pure physical DPS specs against 3 Ele Shamans in a BGB and just expects it to be a fair match. Genuinely makes zero sense that they wouldn’t revert these armor changes until the expansion actually goes live. We’re still playing in DFS4’s gear meta. We don’t need TWWS1’s stat scaling yet.
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They did make a post regarding the increase in stats reflecting TWW. Not sure if buffs will come as rogues are slotted for quite a bit of tuning in the next build (beta build we are going to see on live at launch).
- On beta, it is hard to say because we “do” hit stuff comparable to other classes… its just that rogues are death by a thousand cuts. All depends what their design goals are for us and if they don’t go back on them by listening to forum propaganda Q.Qing about rogues (again).
Observation and slightly ticked rant:
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“Rogues are dealing more damage than we would like them to be” was a blue response in df that continued to haunt rogues with constant nerfs,
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Each time rogues aren’t effective, lesser brained classes are buffed and turned into screaming children fired up on sugar at a Chuck E Cheese, and casters just zug people down but we remain nerfed for some dumb reason.
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Vanish was nerfed (ok fine, can live with it), other classes gained more anti rogue tools like kindling flare and more defense (cool, good for them.), stuff like Moonkin and Ele whooping the dog snot out of people with zero finesse but rogues get nerfed each expansion due to simple propaganda isn’t acceptable.
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if a special attack IS doing too much (which it will not in TWW as HP is very high), sure , tune it down but stop turning us to stun bots every expansion since the nonsense that was Legion and leaving classes that hit harder with less effort and more frequently. I don’t care what other classes do, stop nerfing rogues because some nerd can’t be bothered to use a wall and think wearing plate makes them the lord himself.
2 Likes