I am comeing back to the game as a rogue and its seems like the hero talents for rogue are just extreamly underwhelming.
Now I do primarily play outlaw, which judgeing by the fourms, is just terrible right now. Which I deffinitaly agree with. Its almost unplayable in its current state.
Assassination deffinitaly is a bit better.
With both of these specs though I feel like the hero talents rogue has to chose from add basically nothing. Even visually. It feels like dispite haveing hero talents the specs look and feel almost exactly the same as they do without.
It has problems. I actually don’t think it’s terrible though.
It’s just a shame that there’s glaring issues going ignored leaving a bitter taste in everyones mouth.
PvE damage is fine. Fun to play. PvP is… debatable.
Make some Killing Spree changes, either uncap Blade Flurry or tune the damage output to justify a target cap and I’m pretty happy personally.
The misconception of it being terrible is entirely due to the target cap with half the dungeons incentivising dense 12+ target pulls to time them. People immediately assumed our damage wouldn’t keep up.
Ironically, the specs that can burst 14-15m on those pulls have zero single target throughput. I manage to out damage every spec in every dungeon short of BM one time so far. Average output is way more important than single pull bursts. I just wish people understood that a bit more.
It’s timed content. More overall damage = more time saved. Weird how many people don’t get this.
bUt bIg DaMagE, unga bunga! I get dealing with pressure points is important, but I can count on one hand the places where the target cap even shows.
Biggest outlier being of course Cinderbrew but overall damage is still okay there.
Second worse, possibly Priory? And yet Outlaw’s overall there is probably one of the highest for me.
Exactly. Priory and Cinderbrew are the two dungeons I’m easily averaging between 3.1-3.5m overalls consistently. Ironically, despite these being the two dungeons those specs should out perform us on, I’m finding the damage gap is just larger in those because my damage output is just better even when 1-2 targets are out of my cleave profile.
Sub is the closest to playing as smooth as silk. Still some issues with the removal of Inv Shadow Dust.
Assassination needs energy buffs baseline and Deathmark to not be dispelled. Meanwhile Outlaw needs Sinister Strike second chance to be increased and several BF and RTB talents made baseline.
Hahah I was being a bit facetious to xaethron, I don’t mind sub at the moments, while you have dance going. I do feel that the downtime between dances is pretty obnoxious though. My favourite was around sepulchre where it was less about filling your dance windows with as much as you can, and more about getting as many dances up as you can and staying in it. That flow was nice. Little downtime and felt good to keep up dance as much as you could. If I’m remembering right, but I’m pretty sure it was late shadowlands.
I think Rogue hero talents are emblematic what a lot of the kit ends up representing in the end, which is a lot of implied complexity that pancakes when it’s realized that actively playing around buffs mostly doesn’t matter. This is in addition to the penalties of misuse being disproportionately harsh compared to the signature talents of other classes–and particularly classes with better role mobility. Basically, the talents are “fine”, largely passive, and, along with minimal visual effects, risk encouraging a class fantasy beyond what you’re actually capable of doing.
All it takes to understand the comparative difference is to look at something like, uhhh, not sure, Diabolist(?) to have that moment of, “Oh haha okay I guess all we get to have is an enhanced auto attack or whatever…”
Yes that is why Rogue talent tree require further iteration as we suggested as much before they dropped the hero talents. Hero talents are just an extension of the core kit from baseline and talent tree respectively and for Rogues that is why the kit is solid but hero talents are lacking.
Rogues do need some modernization to keep up with the changes to the game.
Yea feels like either they need to cut 20-30s off of blades/dance or else make them even more powerful than they are (at least in aoe). I feel like a ret’s 30 sec cds in aoe is as powerful as having full cds up as sub.
I can’t talk about numbers and stuff but regarding visuals I find Coup De Grace weird because it is some 3 part attack animation but you can easily cut the animation (no pun intended) with pressing another ability.
I think people wouldn’t want to be animation locked (I miss Death from Above tho) but I feel like the animation is wasted. The animations need to be fast.
It’s kinda funny because nobody can seem to comprehend how much that 5% chance actually makes. https://i.imgur.com/JD2qH1B.png
Like this is literally UNACCEPTABLE design. It does not matter how well you play especially since you now play Trickster and lose another 5% chance because of that. It feels like absolute trash to play right now if you don’t have SNC + BS.
There is no reason that this should even be possible to happen when you’re playing 100% correctly it’s absolutely ridiculous. The CDR from the 2x Coup bug was the only glue left holding it together and that’s gone now so.
The problem with Rogue hero talents is that they feel like azerite traits while other classes are running around with full blown legendary power levels.
