Rogue has a problem

Rogue has a real problem, and it’s sad Blizzard hasn’t addressed it as it would if it were any other class. Rogue is the most buggiest, least played, and most antithetical to modern game play out of any other class. It lacks utility, damage, and identity, and for the people saying they can do damage, lets be honest you have to exert five times the effort of any other class.

Rogue needs a complete break down and rebuild, it’s that simple. Let’s start with stealth, whats the point of it these days? You enter it once before combat and then it barely has relevance outside vanish which is one ability use before leaving stealth once again. On top of that in M+ random environmental damage pulls you out of stealth randomly even if you aren’t the target. Not to note that true sight is now given to almost every other mob making shroud useless as mind soothe is just better in general.

Utility? Nonexistent. In raid and in M+ we bring the LEAST to the table, to the point in raid we were only taken to two fights in the race to the world first. One being a meme because it dropped an agility dagger and the other because we provided 4 interrupts which is the first time that’s happened in a raid tier. In M+ Trick is as much as a liability (So tricky) as it is a boon. If the tank dies and you don’t hit your cancel macro fast enough it’s over Mobs will snap to the tank and farm them on re-spawn. Our poisons? Well Atrophic poison is pitiful as it doesn’t affect environmental damage like paladin aura, and its on a choice node that would be helpful in other scenarios but we can only have 1 non-leathal poison applied if we aren’t assassination. Name one other class that has their utility as gated as Rogue, I’ll wait.

Now for damage, there is something to be said. Some tier’s one of our specs make it but only in raid, but it’s a coin flip. For being a triple DPS spec the amount of times we aren’t meta because of our low damage is insane. Certainly because we don’t provide any utility.

Bugs, oh boy, bugs. Don’t play rogue unless you’re entomologist because you’ll be plagued with them. Let’s just look at the fact I believe Sin (Assassination) finished season 3 TWW with 15 outstanding bugs and a broken 4 piece on their tier set? Not to mention they currently can’t track their apex talent. Stealth? Bugged. Talent interactions? Bugged. Damage? Bugged. Utility? Bugged. Why would any person who has managed to stick it out with this class suggest a new player play rogue.

Now I forgot to mention this last point I wanted to make in my intro, but physical injury and pain. I will say this season one of midnight has been a lot less stressful on a players hand mainly because of the purge they did to abilities. However, lets be honest. How crazy is it that I need to mention the amount of wrist and or hand pain someone playing rogue has to go through just to eek out damage a mage or hunter can easily put out with the same ill affect. This point is likely the least talked about, but is a very common sentiment when the class is talked about.

So with that ranting done, how do we fix this? It’s easy, not in terms of work but in terms of ideas. Complete tear down and rework of the whole class and an addition of a fourth spec that solves another problem currently plaguing WoWs class balance.

Outlaw gets redesigned and becomes a tank spec, this allows more tanks to enter the player base and with the drought we already have this can only benefit not just the class but the community as a whole.

Assassination, mostly stays the same but remove the resilience on stealth all together, that way they aren’t a completely red headed step child to pugging M+ that are constantly nerfed in damage because they already used vanish on the last chain pull and now don’t have anything.

Subtly, make it become a mid ranged spec like the new Demon Hunter spec devouerer. Gear it more towards the fantasy of psi blade or arcane trickster from DND. For anyone that needs a reference for the idea look up the Dota 2 hero Templar assassin who attacks from range as a stealthy character and her auto attacks jump to other targets behind the main target.

Lastly, add Bard. Bard by itself would be a weird thing to add to the game as a pure class. I believe it does a better job given to rogue as a support spec then needing to come up with three or two other specs that would likely already be filled out by other classes niches. This also solves the whole issue surrounding Augmentation Evoker. It allows Blizzard to finally have a second support class to help balance Aug and when Aug becomes meta theoretically so wouldn’t bard. As the game play and fantasy would be around the same ball park.

With the specs out of the way the final thing I’d like to touch on is utility. Atrophic poison needs to be redesigned. It should be a poison that is baseline to all specs mentioned about and either offer increased critical damage / strike chance or haste. On top of redesigning our current ‘raid buff’ I believe it’s time to give another class Hero. Rogue has some good options already. With Outlaw becoming a tank spec a redesigned Adrenaline Rush could easily become the classes hero ability. If that doesn’t do it for you come up with a new ability call it Ruthless Assault, or Press the Advantage. Who care’s what it’s called the simple fact is that it would also help rogue in general be taken to groups outside of raid which it desperately needs.

I honestly don’t know how to end this as I wrote it while trying to que for 17 keys and am on my 200th decline in 3 hours. However these are my ideas to fix the population of rogue and the situation which is desperately needed. If anything it can start another conversation for blizzard to have eyes on (hopefully) and have them finally address the abysmal state that my favorite class is in.

6 Likes

no

/10chars

7 Likes

No.

Also no, but more no.

8 Likes

Replace the devs, implement some actual theme with different aspects addressed over multiple talent implementations, and sterilize certain individuals.

3 Likes

Agree with the problems, and the need for a revamp.

2 Likes

I agree with the issues you’re outlining (but have to say there are definitely more), just not necessarily the solutions.

Stealth isn’t assassinations only problem. Sub shouldn’t be a mid range spec. I actually don’t know how I feel about your Outlaw change, but leaning towards “no”.

I do think Rogue could benefit from some sort of tanking spec focused more on dodging and debilitating our enemies.

I also don’t think Bard fits Rogue.

3 Likes

Yes to rogues having lots of problems. No to sub being mid ranged and outlaw being tank. Big no

4 Likes

Would have more leather tanks than plate if this happened lol.

5 Likes

I stopped reading the moment you spewed the most nonsesnecial statement about making Sub a mid ranged spec.

You will take this as a jab but respectfully you know nothing about rogue cause even purporting such a clueless notion is borderline insanity.

3 Likes

Rogues were a ranged spec with shuriken toss but it was too hard to balance so it was shelved. As for a tank spec I can see BlizZard making Rogues 4th spec a tank.

:surfing_woman: :surfing_man:

2 Likes

I gave up when you started talking about a cancel tricks macro when the tanks dies
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

1 Like

Blademaster 4th spec please.

Use images and transmission swaps like samuro from heroes of the storm.

Man now I made myself sad knowing this is just a pipe dream…

5 Likes

come onnnnn. you know it would be fun. did you even try Combat Rogue Tank in SoD? it was pretty solid. even if it still wasn’t popular buy n large. but I get it. people wanna keep the OG Dodgy class down.

:pensive_face:

I for one am tired of the monk and DH dodge agenda!
”They took our dodge!”

if rogue gets a tank spec which probably won’t happen in retail due to peoples fear of change, including the devs. I would 100% main it for suuuure. even if its beans. I just think personally it would be a neat shake up to the class as a whole.

I guess after playing the class for 20+ years, I just want something new but the other classes don’t give me what I enjoy so much about rogue.

:pensive_face:

I think it would’ve been neat to expand that Float like a butterfly, balancing Feint / Evasion CDR gameplay and maybe add like a finisher that gives DR to make the rogue a lil more durable while adding another plate to spin.

3 Likes

Rogues never had a dedicated ranged spec or even remotely where balanced around shuriken toss viability that statement isn’t even grounded in reality.

Rogues getting a completely distinct 4th tank spec would be a great addition. Changing the core defined identity of the existing specs should not be touched.

5 Likes

Shuriken toss worked with autos so that is incorrect as BlizZard tried to make it viable but failed. Shuriken Toss with autos was a better version of Acrobatic Strikes in every single way possible.

:surfing_woman: :surfing_man:

2 Likes

So let me get this straight, you think having ranged auto attacks makes something a dedicated ranged spec? Even for being a dummy who just loves trolling, this is a new level of intellectual gymnastics.

3 Likes

Thats true, i think rogue has the most punishment for stats as well

I think it’s funny that people are thinking about a 4th spec on the rogue. If we got a new spec per class every year it will take 12 years before we get ours. Druids already has a 4th don’t think they will get a fifth.

I’d prefer them to just fix the 3 we have before adding anything net new.

4 Likes

they dont need a 5th. and druids wouldnt get anything in this scenario of giving the other classes a 4th. this is built on the idea of classes that are introduced with 2 specs..DH and Evoker and then later a 3rd added. almost like blizzard half bakes ideas, or bank ideas till a later date.
adding a 4th spec shouldnt even be hard because they already “tested” ideas via Season of Discovery.

but yeah, druid isn’t special in this scenario. they already have every option in the game, they need no more. from melee to ranged, to tank to healer. they are fine and need literally nothing else beside more forms and thats it.