Just a few minor changes I would love to see for rogue as they currently stand in the beta.
As a long time rogue enjoyer I dont mind the poison charges. By time you are max level they mostly don’t matter.
From an RPG perspective your character is low level and makes crappy poisons… so they fall off faster… they show that with charges.
If charges don’t matter then why not remove them? At the very least remove charges on the max rank (from the trainer) of the poisons.
For the RPG element I mentioned. It feels better as you get higher level to not have to use as many poisons because you are higher level and your character got better at making them.
And the max level poisons not having charges is simply you perfecting them as a RPG element. They are no longer second rate.
Combo points being on the rogue breaks PvP.
Being able to swap to a target and drop a 5 cp Kidney on the first global is too strong for a game like Forever.
It’s better than needing jank abilities like Redirect.
Does redirect exist in Forever? It wasn’t introduced until MoP. Redirect has a similar issue as just having CP on the rogue.
Getting an opener off allows a rogue to lockdown a character for a long time. The trade off is that it’s hard to do that without an opener, at least without a bit of uptime beforehand.
Currently it’s not on the trainer, but it is datamined (currently on WoWheads Forever database, 10 second CD). That being said it could be a leftover remnant from SoD which hasn’t been removed.
I’m not opposed if they make it so combo points are rapidly lost when out of combat as middle ground.
I’d say, return the energy to the classic tick rate.
Many posts like this, “wants to play Classic+” “Wants to changes to turn into retail”.
Yeah, you may be asking for 1 thing, some one else will ask for another… and another… and another. Then where we at? Retail
But whats the difference of doing it on the target or a other one? It would offer rogue more option than hit only one target.
RPG wise, the rogue should be able to jump target to target, agility and quickness should be is strength.
I don’t think we need retail style combo points; that change was much more because of the increasing focus on aoe and especially the addition of spells like FoK and Crimson tempest that can both build and spend Combo points with out a target
it’s one of the major “divergence points” for lack of a better term I think forever should take for rogues design wise combo points on the rogue effectively turn combo points into a cooldown (in most situations)
removing the (damaging) finisher energy cost can allow optimizing finishers to avoid wasting combo points to add a new level of skill expression to the class and would even open more design space for using finishers at less than 5 combo points; where as moving the cp to the rogue would reward you to essentially always wait till 5 cp as the only way to waste them is for combat to end
redirect/cp on rogue also has pvp concerns though redirect could have a “cant be used on enemy players” change to fix that ofc.
Just have the combo points degrade rapidly after 5 seconds out of combat.
Having combo points tied to your character simply means we don’t need to rely on the awful jank which is redirect.
They did increase poison charge count once recently already. I think at 60 it might be sufficient where it is, perhaps until sin rogues start getting dual 1.4 daggers. Either way, I’m not opposed to removing charges entirely, it wouldn’t hurt anything to do so. Rogues would just have a little more pocket change.
Combo points saved to rogue instead of on target would be a very welcomed improvement.
it also reduces the skill expression of the class a lot and undermines a lot of what makes a rogue feel unique mechanically; I do agree that redirect is janky but combo points on rogue completly removes the tension of target selection and is just another form of qol that is also removing chances for failure aka chances for skill expression.
why bother putting in effort if the game makes truly bad choices impossible to make?
I feel at the very least the max rank of poisons should have their charges removed, where you have “perfected” them.
I strongly disagree with that. They already changed how energy works where its no longer tick based. That was skill expression knowing when to open right before you got your energy tick so it was as if you had 20 more energy.
Having combo points tied to your character means rogues don’t need to have to worry about wasting combo points in dungeons and raids, you can focus priority targets without needing to ready Redirect to try and snipe the points you have on the target before target swapping. It’s not fun and is absolute jank it’s a waste of a GCD. Rogues and Feral (cat) druids were ecstatic when this change was made in WoD and was frankly one of the only good things about WoD.
The concern is with PvP but have Combo Points rapidly fall off within 5 seconds of leaving combat (probably at the rate of 1 point per 0.5 seconds) and it’s a non-issue.
stopping 7 times in a raid to put poisons on isn’t RPG like. you thinking coating your blades in poisons in a real life fight, you’re going to stop and keep doing it right in the middle of the fray? how many times you think poisoners actually stop in a fight to pull out their lethal stuff and start daintily applying it while fireballs are flying around the room? get real. this is a silly argument.
Forever Rogue Wishlist:
Make sap not aggro the entire pack in dungeons.
Leather classes in dungeons should get Priority Rolls over Leather drops.
90% of rogue damage is white damage, remove Dual Wield Specialization from talents and make it trained as baseline from rogue trainers, so more than 1 spec is viable.
i think flurry is more important for any pve spec than anything. if they can’t take sub or assassination capstones and flurry at the same time, then they are functionally useless for pve.
This is exactly what I meant about skill expression; also the reason to remove the finisher energy cost is also to alleviate the problem of “wasting” combo points by letting you convert them into damage or buff before switching with no cost to your opener on the new add except for the gcd, but you should be planning for adds a lil early anyway to pool energy so the 1 second of gcd from your free finisher would not be a big deal as the only resource it would take would be a global and the combo points you’re going to loose otherwise. That’s why I specifically mentioned removing finisher energy cost as it’s the QoL adjustment to the combo point on target system
This was already an element of skill expression for rogues in the pre redirect era it just didn’t come up very often because the pacing of generating combo points and spending them was too slow.
It’s similar to aspect of the viper, which many people disliked due to having a very large damage penalty attached in Wotlk, but in sod we saw a more approachable version with a more mild damage penalty that also was very effective during downtime; so you both feel less penalized for needing to resort to it due to fight length or player error, and also had meaningful interactions with the content you were doing to game it and avoid the down side, by utilizing it when you couldn’t attack anyway, or as a melee hunter understanding when it’d be better to get the mana then swap to ranged attacks while out of range.
Also the level of “jank” or “bad” a mechanic feels is determined as much by the context it exists in as the mechanic itself
it’s fine for rogues to not open with a 5 CP finisher as their first global. Having to build up on a specific target is a thematic and mechanical aspect of rogues identity and something they can be balanced around, you also as combat that can blade flurry off a target with banked combo points on it for fights with cleave.
One of the things they mentioned wanting to do in forever was explore alternate paths to solve problems and I think combo points staying on target is one of those things. It allows them to utilize a system like chi or holy power and allowing it to feel more distinct than combo points because they’d build on self instead.