That’s the big thing. He wanted what RM had at a baseline. But when you start to factor in all this shadowlands stuff? It just gets excessive. If I manage to get a rogue out before his opener it doesn’t matter. If he messes up and cloaks or evasions wrong it just doesn’t matter. Too much forgiveness for one of the best control classes in the game.
Yes, that was a bit sarcastic statement, but it is literally citating what some people tried to say - “other than RMP comps could get high rating only because there are other comps than RMP that they fought on their way there” assuming that RMP matchup for them was auto-loss, which is false. Is it an unpleasant enemy because of its CC and lots of kiting / peeling / surviving? Yes. Are RMP players not too punishable by mistakes? Yes. Are they unbeatable? No.
That is my point - Shadowplay is not the best of SP comps, so many people preferred to play RPS or Godcomp. Which returns us to the question - if Fire Mage and Rogue are individually as powerful as people claim, why there are so many complaints about RMP and little to no complaints about two other comps? People fought all of these comps in Season 2.
And other classes have lots of tools to survive as well. Take Ferals - Fleshcraft for Necrolords, instant cast Regrowths after combo finishers, Renewal heal, double Frenzied Regeneration self-healing, Survival Instincts, Barskin, Mighty Bash stun, Rake stun, Maim stun, Incapacitating Roar, Entangling Roots / Cyclone which are both a spammable ranged CC, Dash movement speed boost, Stampeding Roar movement speed boost, Cat Form passive movement speed boost, etc. So it is normal for them to have such a massive toolkit, but for the other stealth class Rogue his toolkit is too much?
DH / Boomy is / was very forgivable especially since Fodder the Flame demon’s healing can save their fails. Ret / War is not too punishable - even if they mess their burst go, they still have decent sustained damage. Jungle is not too punishable either for messed goes because they have decent sustained damage as well, Feral is tanky and can heal a lot if enemies go BM.
@ Covlol - that is what people usually write when they lack any other arguments.
I miss the days where if a mage had a bad blink they were forced to trade ice block for it.
Now mages can literally just tank damage.
That is my point. The difference in Fire Mage survivability compared to previous expansion BFA is mainly borrowed power. They received Alter Time, but lost Temporal Shield. Triune Ward is just a 5% increase to shield value now. Things that make mages tankier are Ice Block heal, Diverted Energy barrier healing and Tempest Barrier shield. All of these things are conduits.
So, if they would need to nerf Mages survivability, they would need to tune these conduits mainly. They also would need to compensate for these nerfs by making some of their defensives undispellable as being purgeable is a compensation for their powerful defense, if it is nerfed, purge vulnerability should be nerfed as well.
There’s two sides to this as well.
Mages were punished for bad blinks but only if the other team had the awareness to capitalize on it. It was dynamic and risk reward. Not simple trades. It was like mages learning not to blink charge stun vs warriors lol.
Hunter pet management vs RMP has also been made braindead and extremely forgiving.
*Hunter doesn’t have to manage pet
*Poly/fear immune undead pets and mechanical pets. Giving them additional ways to always get a ROS off due to inability to CC pet in situations it would normally be CC’d. Allowing them to survive a go they normally wouldn’t survive, or not trade when they normally would have too. For those that need it explained to them
*Pet hot can’t be dispelled
*Pet ress isn’t the same as it was in cata and should be looked into.
*Pet won’t ever die through sac, when before they can and often did die through sac if hunter wasn’t paying attention and neither was healer. Opening up a win-con.
Pretty important survival tool that’s also pretty OP and overlooked. Also made far too forgiving and rewarding.
Who needs to blink charges when you could jump them tho lol
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I forgot about that, thank you. It is even funny that I argue with two hunters about Mage survivability when they literally have a “Combustion deleter” with 1 min CD (which is equal to or shorter than Combustion’s own CD) which they can make much harder to prevent by taking undead / mechanical pet.
You’re right cleaves just cry non stop they just find anything to complain about it’s crazy.
Arguably better for a hunter to play a tank pet into RMP because priest can shackle undead pet anyways which means all the right targets can get sheeped
Also took until this xpac for fire mages to remember to swap on pet sac, dnno how they went the last two xpacs almost never doing that
BM being able to BW as a pet trinket with a super short CD has been the only thing that has seemed super dumb to me, our pet trinket used to have a 3 min CD at least before it was pruned
Also for mechanical you’re only going to ever see that with KFC, never as anything else because giving up healing reduction is awful
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would solve this problem literally overnight, rather then the devs trying to balance the game.
What lmao no it wouldn’t
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It absolutely wouldn’t.
It definitely would. Scripted gaming isn’t gaming at all really, when you actually think about it.
You can literally just stare at the CDs for chastise/db/kidney this changes nothing
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That doesn’t mean what you think it means. And isn’t the reason why you have issues climbing.
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Ret warrior brain versus rmp brain, battle of the ages.
Like what Dillon is saying, the abilities themselves can act as their ow DR timers. Which is why people keep pointing out that increasing kidney cooldown only buffs bad rogues. Because they wouldn’t dr their own kidney as often.
When everyone is controlling a differe target in unison, it’s not an add on issue. It’s rmp having too much ranged instant cast cc. Aka. Holy priest is the new offender. Which is what everyone who can look at it objectively has been saying so far.
You don’t need add-ons to count to 3.
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lets not forget holy priests existence in the arena requires an extra 5 kbs to win the arena is stupid
god tier of a class; 45 second bubble, immunity to cc, 40 yard range stun into fear, 30% perma wall up on self; 8k holy fires into a 10k death; an innervate thats better than innervate cuz it gives mana & reduces cdr turning their 8 ns’s into 13 ns’s and then their aoe heal that gives everyone 20% increased healing; lets also not forget about their tier set giving them more cdr and buffing their serenity by 60% so now their 13 ns’s turns into 17 ns’s, also air ability so they never are scared of melee; mindgames critting for 20k, mindcontrol dcing and literally stealing your game time, etc ALL OF THIS ONTOP of rogue cds and mage cds.
I’ll never understand why holy priest hits harder than disc with smite lol
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can figure out rogue mage is the most broken comp by reducing it the simplest terms
game is CD based & sustain damage is nearly irrelevant, healing becomes worse as a match goes on, control gains value, people only die in stuns with cross - who does it best??
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