So if I am reading the Hot Fix correctly, Rising mist can’t extend a HoT past 200% of its original duration…
Months of farming haste gear… 100s of thousands of gold on corruption… and my monk is now dead.
I am actually really upset by this change.
3 Likes
That doesn’t seem right just based on playing… Maybe it was +100% or 2x?
Edits:
The interaction on Renewing Mist is different than the interaction with Enveloping Mist. Renewing mists is getting the full 4s. Enveloping looks to be only getting a portion of this, and I’m not going beyond 11s timer (which untalented, double would be 12s)… Not sure about Essence Font, but this is just some prelim info to help.
I can tell you the tooltip is wrong.
What I can’t say is exactly how they decided it to function. The blue posts I can find are ambiguous or possibly out of context, indicating the 2s buff reduction.
Oh thank you. I made a mistake in saying “you cant extend past 100%” I meant to say 200%.
Tested myself, Evm’s interaction is correct
Just evm and tft rsk
Evm starts at 6s
1st rsk adds 4s -> bumps to 10s (will appear as 9s but in reality it’s like 9.90s due to lag/the time taken to press rsk)
1 gcd of downtime
2nd rsk adds 2s -> bumps to 8s (will appear as 7s, same reason as 1st rsk)
Which is correct because rising mist can’t extend for more than 100% of the og duration, so 4+2=6, therefore it is correct
Essence font gets +4s twice as the original duration is 8s without upwelling
At first look it seems like a fair nerf to me. No one can deny it was absolutely busted before but we will have to see how the actual numbers shake out.
The lame part like you said op is the time spent herringbone gear for it but that’s a problem with bfa gearing being required to prop up classes as a whole not specific to monk.
3 Likes
True, but because of corruption
Sans corruption, extending by 2s less during TFT RSK is hardly necessary
This isn’t the only thing corruption breaks - it just isn’t designed to be balance-able AND impactful
I think the real problem is that corruption disappears in a patch. The form this talent iteration took will stick around.
It’s the same problem WW saw in MoP with RoRo. Fistweaving isn’t designed incredibly well because that’s not how Blizzard wants Monk to heal. They’re happy to provide the option, because that’s not surprisingly what players want, but I’d be shocked to see a robust solution.
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The nerf does not seem fair, I think the issue was Enveloping Mists, you should not be able to cast that on the whole raid and maintain it, its a very good HoT. I still do believe you should be able to maintain Renewing Mists on the majority of the raid for vivify cleaving. At that rate, good monks would be able to pull 80-100k HPS which in my opinion is where it needs to be. The fact they screwed over renewing mists and you cant hold more than 6-7 up at a time right now after the nerf sucks (mind you this is trying very hard to maintain 6-7 even right now). Monks dont have a good consistent raid heal outside of essence font, but its such a boring talent to play the majority of your rotation around, having that renewing mists and vivify cleave for raid healing is extremely fun and gives us other options for raid healing (outside of the 3m CD of revival).
The nerf sucks, i think the nerf is perfect for enveloping mists. But i want renewing mists back so i can actually play fistweaving in raiding and still be a viable option for heals.
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The nerf brings back the talent to reasonable power levels, which is good
however, it turns out that the most effective way to play is not for ramping up your renewing mists (surprise!). The best way to play rising mist is simply how it played before 8.3. So the first hotfix would have been better after all, for raids anyway
Hopefully blizzard realizes this (lol) and gives monks better ways to spread renewing mists in 9.0, as this hots extension gameplay is very bland, and while playing more proactively is nice, ramping up on a mw basically never stops, and it takes like a minute to reach a reasonable level of renewing mists, it’s just silly.
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Currently, there are monks that are pulling 80-100k with the nerf. However the issue is that while we’re pulling competitive numbers compared to Upwelling, we’re still not pulling competitive numbers compared to other healers with this fix. Here are the leaderboards of other healers for plenty of fights compared to mistweavers with this new nerf.
Wrathion
Other healers:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/24#metric=hps&partition=2&class=Healers&boss=2329&search=5.2.0
New Rising Mist:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/24#metric=hps&class=Monk&boss=2329&search=date.1588046400000.1588183852533%7Cabilities.274912&spec=Mistweaver®ion=1
Maut
Other healers:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/24#metric=hps&partition=2&class=Healers&boss=2327&search=5.2.0
New Rising Mist:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/24#metric=hps&class=Monk&boss=2327&search=date.1588046400000.1588183852533%7Cabilities.274912&spec=Mistweaver®ion=1
Skitra
Other healers:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/24#metric=hps&partition=2&class=Healers&boss=2334&search=5.2.0
New Rising Mist:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/24#metric=hps&class=Monk&boss=2334&search=date.1588046400000.1588183852533%7Cabilities.274912&spec=Mistweaver®ion=1
Xanesh
Other healers:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/24#metric=hps&partition=2&class=Healers&boss=2328&search=5.2.0
New Rising Mist:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/24#metric=hps&class=Monk&boss=2328&search=date.1588046400000.1588183852533%7Cabilities.274912&spec=Mistweaver®ion=1
Vexiona
Other healers:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/24#metric=hps&partition=2&class=Healers&boss=2336&search=5.2.0
New Rising Mist:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/24#metric=hps&class=Monk&boss=2336&search=date.1588046400000.1588183852533%7Cabilities.274912&spec=Mistweaver®ion=1
Shad’har
Other healers:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/24#metric=hps&partition=2&class=Healers&boss=2335&search=5.2.0
New Rising Mist:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/24#metric=hps&class=Monk&boss=2335&search=date.1588046400000.1588183852533%7Cabilities.274912&spec=Mistweaver®ion=1
These logs are with people having anywhere around 4-7 ReM’s at any given point (depending on if they get Ineffable Truth procs, which is a bad playstyle anyway because of inconsistent ramping). At first glance this new nerf looked like a better idea than the previous nerf that added to our Spellpower, and fortunately for those that like m+ this IS a better option for them. However, in a raid setting this new nerf is tragic, now being able to see logs of it.
Unfortunately, raid MW’s have it rough this time. The enveloping mist build needed to go, that much is true. That being said, this nerf still brings you down to be Upwelling equivalent while requiring more work to be done, and that’s sad. With the previous nerf, it would have gutted m+ RM and would still have required raid MW’s to be EF bots. It’s a difficult line the devs are working on right now with balancing. I just don’t want to continue to see us consistently on the bottom.
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Yea this sucks, i dont want to re-roll a pally or priest just to be in the top healing. Upwelling is so boring and i never see upwelling doing high HPS.
The only thing i think really needed to be done was cap how many enveloping mists can be out on a target at once, and maybe limit the amount of renewing mists but still be able to get them on the majority. If you’re running a 10 man i would guess you would be ok holding 6 renewing mists out. But running a 20 man or more and only holding 6 out still sucks. I dont know though. It just sucks i made this toon and put time into it for it to get nerfed, i understand it needed one but its worse than i thought they would do. Hopefully they realize and hotfix some stuff to bring it back up to be on par with the other healers.
The first healing logs of over 200k hps were with the renewing mist vivify cleave. It was still over powered just obviously not as over powered at enveloping mist was. Both needed a nerf.
So what are your opinions on other healers having 200k HPS on certain fights? Or the fact that none of the fights have a single MW in the top 100 in the leaderboards (when running Upwelling or new RM)? Hell the only two fights with a single Mistweaver within the top 100-200th placement is Drest’agath and Il’gynoth. Commonly the first Mistweaver you see (excluding the Rising Mists logs pre 4/28) is within the 300-500th placement in the overall leaderboards of each fight, and it’s typically an Upwelling log. Granted we’ve only had a single day to work with the new RM build, but considering the feedback and general thoughts in the monk discord I’d say it’s fairly certain that RM will still be just at or under UW.
The scales are being tipped too far in one direction or the other, in my opinion. Yes, the Enveloping Mist build needed to go. And yes, we needed a way to prevent Renewing Mist blankets on an entire 20 man raid as well. That being said, we’re now stuck with 4-5 consistent ReM’s out, while peaking at up to 8 if you have enough Ineffable Truth corruptions (which could very well proc at times where you don’t even need to heal). If they were to have kept the original nerf, MW’s in m+ would have suffered more alongside the raiders, and raiders would have just gone back to being EF bots followed by 2 RSK’s. With this nerf, we’re still looking at low throughput Rising Mists and lackluster healing through Vivify cleaving because of the restriction to how many ReM’s we can consistently keep out (in a raid scenario. In m+ it’s just fine).
I’m just not a fan of being led from one extreme to the other. Granted, I’m not a top end mythic raider (though I would like to in the future, given my schedule allows me to do so), but the incentive to try and push that content with a MW is low compared to switching to another healer or picking a DPS to play. I love MW and the feel of fistweaving in general, but it just doesn’t look useful enough in either utility or raw throughput to bring into a mythic progression setting. We have the next to lowest overall representation in Mythic, just above Disc Priests, despite being stupidly easy with Upwelling. I think there’s something to be said about that.
I havnt looked at any post nerf logs but pre nerf the highest hps by far of any healer was enveloping mist. Second and still far higher than third was vivify cleave.
Idk how they perform post nerf because I havnt looked but anyone who looked at what either build could do pre nerf and thought it was ok was clearly a mist weaver main who was enjoying being over powered. I don’t blame them. Being op I’d fun. It’s bad for the game though obviously.
If you exclude rising mists from overall leaderboards from each fight, you’ll see what I’m talking about when I say the first MW you’ll see is several hundred names down for most of the fights.
If you search for MW’s only after 4/28, you’ll see Rising Mists below Upwelling throughput 100% of the time (once again, we’ve only had a day of playtesting so take it with a grain of salt).
I’m not saying the ReM portion of RM shouldn’t have been nerfed, what I’m trying to say is that your basis for nerfing it because high end MW’s doing 200k HPS through ReM cleaving is not a good one when there are other healers doing 200k HPS on fights. If you think MW’s should have been nerfed because of that alone, then so do the other healers. What I’m also trying to say was that this nerf did too little to incentivize taking RM over Upwelling because it’s providing, at best, the same throughput for more work. The only difference is that we DPS like 10k more, but at this point of corruption power levels I’d say healer DPS is incredibly insignificant.
Once again, the scale is being tipped too far in one direction or the other.
Once again, I told you all this hotfix was going to be hot garbage! I said it in the Mistweaver hotfix thread, but no, most people said the build would be playable, which yes it’s playable, but crap. You once again need to farm for another particular corruption, but this time, it’s for a subpar healing spec. Congrats to all the mistweavers out there. I hope you enjoy being a bottom tier healer. Maybe the gear you bought that had %haste corruption will make a nice paperweight. /shrug
What is this monk discord you speak of? Im always looking for more monk information 
It’s crap because you play it wrong, there are already post-nerf logs where rising mist still contributes anywhere around 20 to 35% of a monk’s healing, while providing similar or sometimes higher numbers than upwelling
Mw is not a glimmer or a disc, as usual, but monk is essentially in the same boat as the other healers, stop pretending that monk is unviable
No the whole thing is crap because the output is low. Its not about playing it right or wrong. Stop trying to defend Blizzard 24/7. It’s all you do in these threads.
The other healers are well above these numbers and the monk is already limited when it comes to utility.
Peak of Serenity. If you google it, the website will pop up and it’ll have a discord linked the upper right-hand corner.
What corruption are you talking about? Ineffable Truth? While it is a great corruption, it’s unreliable. It could proc during times that no healing needs to be done. You’d probably be better off using corruptions like Deadly Momentum, Severe, or Versatile for the current RM build, and then adding in IT’s if you need the corruption for HoD.
And just because it isn’t as competitive doesn’t mean it isn’t usable for the content that you or I do, which is heroic level raiding. You only have 3 mythic kills on this character, one of which was done as WW. Even with this nerf, it’s still playable for us. Mistweavers will still see less representation in a Mythic raiding, and have lower throughput than other healers on average. For Heroic, we’re fine.
My personal gripe is that I see the imbalance of it at top level gameplay, and I’m not a fan of that. It seems your gripe is based around not being OP anymore, which is wrong.