Blizzard has been designing Enh Shaman around DW since TBC in 2007. People have been using 2H regardless through other expansions, but only when balance aligns and they can RNG a near one-shot butst.
The dream is deleting an enemy player at random, and that dream should be dead.
Wrong so very wrong
Well it has been gone a long time. So I am right there.
When it was here, it was absolutely horrible. It didn’t do anything positive for the class.
It “looked cool”. But mechanically was horribly designed.
lol you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Can you provide some evidence to the contrary?
Other than “lul windfury 1 shots lul.”
this entire post?
I don’t even know what that means but ‘because hand of rag exists’ isn’t a compelling reason to rework a class.
Unlikely doesn’t mean flat out no 
If enough support for the idea is given, if the community shows they want it, it could still happen. Maybe not in Shadowlands but it is being brought to the light now so this is probably the best time to make your voice heard.
Just remember, the Vanilla Server people spent ~11 years being told “No” and even “You think you do but you don’t” before finally getting through. Hopefully it wont take 11 years but being persistent and never giving up hope is the key!
People have given plenty of good reasons, as good of a reason as the people wanting Dual Wield vs Two-Hander for Monk and DK or SMF vs TG for Fury Warrior.
Having player choice that differentiates you from other Enhancement Shamans, that not every build is the same. The visual appeal of wielding a big, powerful, Two-Hander vs the dexterous finesse of Dual Wielding. A return to how things once were in an age of depruning and returning to the past.
The thing is a lot of anti-Two-Hander people here dismiss anyone’s reasoning because they personally do not LIKE the idea. Which, fair enough, people have the right to not like something but those who want this have given plenty of reasons, they just get dismissed and then the people dismissing them turn around and say “They have not given a reason why they want it back!”
We are not even asking for DW to be removed, we just want the option that DK’s, Monk’s, and Warriors have in “choice”.
“Wanting” is not a reason though.
And wanting the Vanilla version back is a TERRIBLE reason.
god forbid we get the good version of the class back
It wasn’t good, that’s the point.
And this is exactly what I mean when I say “We give a reason, you dismiss it.”
I listed a total of three reasons, you target one and say “No, that’s not a reason because I say its not”
What was the reasoning for Frost DK’s? They wanted the choice back. What was the reason for Monks? They wanted the choice back. What was the reason for Fury Warriors? They wanted the choice back.
Yet, this is unacceptable for Shaman? They shouldn’t be allowed to want the ability to choose a weapon style?
I never understand people who dislike something so much, something that would have no effect on them personally, that they go out of their way to try and make sure it will never happen. Seen this thing all the time with Allied races, I seriously do not get it.
I am not going to say I agree with what “Shoots” said about it (Vanilla Shaman) being “good versions” of the class, but what I will say is that player choice has a big impact and is desirable and obviously there is a fanbase for this considering how many thread (by different people) sprout up, how often this topic returns, and the fact that people were still using Two-Handed weapons on Enhancement Shaman through MoP. My goodness, there are TONS of youtube videos of people doing Two-Handed Enhancement IN MoP and only stopped because WoD changed Stormstrike to REQUIRE one handers.
I get it, you don’t like it and I can respect your opinion, but you don’t really get to tell us our opinions don’t mean anything XD You can dislike it all you want, but yall aren’t in a position to say they don’t matter just as we are not in a position to say your opinions don’t matter, friend.
That’s a reason, because dual wield for Frost was NEVER good.
2 handed Enhance was NEVER good either, and shouldn’t come back FOR THE SAME REASON DUAL WIELD FROST NEEDS TO GO.
Now, give us a reason why 2 handed Enhance should come back other than “because we want it and it won’t affect you”, because guess what? Yeah it will, same as dual wield Frost DK vs 2 handed will affect THEM.
Actually, in MoP, it was superior to Two-Handed in sustain. Two-Handed bursted for more and I know that as a FACT because I mained Frost DK in MoP and specifically played Two-Handed knowing it under performed compared to Dual Wield but choose it because I liked having the big bursty hits, especially in PvP.
So don’t try to pull that. Dual Wield was superior in MoP and every statistic, sim, etc. reflected that.
And there is where I will disagree with you. Player choice should return, player choice is a good thing.
Again, given you several reasons. You don’t get to decide they are good enough or not. I am sorry that you feel threatened that we have reasons we stand behind but again, you don’t get to decide that our reasons are valid or invalid.
I quite enjoyed playing it in Classic. I also enjoyed dagger and shield enhance. I also like to dual wield maces on retail.
They were all enjoyable for different reasons, and having choice makes this game better.
Its funny that playing on my classic shaman there are more meaningful choices and variety to playstyles then on retail. I would assume it would be the other way around. While I also prefer the older talents systems, the weapon choice is a big part of the variety.
More choice is a good thing. More RPG in an MMORPG is a good thing. I am so happy with all the things being brought back to enhance for SL, but I wish 2H was also a possibility.
You know, I never quite got the Shield and One-Hander thing but I have to say it was really cool to see how passionate people were about it on Classic XD There were some really cool theory crafting videos on it.
But I agree, player choice is great and I wish the game had more of it. Its been so normalized over the years.
After playing with a 3.8 second axe swing timer, the 1.3 second dagger felt incredible! It was more consistent, but lacked the excitement of a 2H WF proc. I would sometimes switch between them if I did not get a WF proc in the first hit or two of that slow axe/mace.
There was a lot of downtime in classic with shamans because they are so mana starved all the time, having faster attacks felt pretty good. I think I was at 45% dmg reduction with the shield too.
I feel like the “You think you do but you don’t” quote held true for arguably most people who went back and tried Classic. Sure, a niche is going to love it forever because some people have been playing Vanilla on private servers since TBC, basically (or whenever the privs started). For a lot of people though, Classic wasn’t anything like they thought they remembered.
The thing all of those classes have in common is that each can already wield the weapon types they want in other specs. Adding Shaman to 2Hers adds another layer of loot conflict that they seemingly want to avoid.
I honestly don’t count 3 reasons, but I’m going to try.
If I’m correct in #1 and #2, they essentially boil down to “they get it” and “I want it”. In video game design, you’re going to be able to find a group of players who want some thing, no matter what that thing is. Do you know how long people have wanted a Shaman tank spec? Since vanilla. The reason? “Rockbiter and Earth Shock (or whichever shock) increased threat, and there’s a shield talent, so it must have been part of the intention in Vanilla”.
Half-baked Vanilla design, a desire to go against convention, and eventually, “Druids got 4 specs so why can’t Shaman have 4 specs?”. In other words, “I want it” and “They have it, why can’t I”.
I don’t mean this to sound like it’s going to, but that’s how a kid argues for a toy. There has to be more substance here, or it’s too easy to dismiss. In the 2H thread, I broke down what I think Blizz would have to do to make 2H work even remotely close to DW, with as many numbers as I could slap together, thinking of as many systems as I could. So far, I’m seemingly the only one who has done that, and I don’t even advocate for 2H to return to Enhancement.
The reasoning for Frost DKs? Because at one point recently the class was designed with it in mind and they seemingly only lost it because of Artifact shoehorning. Also, DKs are already in the loot pool for 2Hers. Also, it’s probably a fairly easy switch flip.
The reasoning for Monks? Seems to be the same as Frost DK.
The reasoning for Warriors? Seems to be the same as the other two, though I think this one adds another layer that I’m not familiar with personally.
It’s because any time spent trying to shoehorn 2H back into Enhancement is time they could have spent simply refining the spec to make it feel better, or time they could have spent iterating on defensive options. There isn’t an infinite amount of dev/design time, so when I don’t want 2H to return, it’s because I understand that they have to prioritize the work they’re doing, and I’d rather they prioritize the design direction of the spec instead of branching to try to appease a vocal minority on a web forum that can’t seem to be bothered to put in the effort to think through all the balance required.
You can have your opinion, but being told to support it more thoroughly is valid.
enhance needs tons of changes that are worth fighting for, and you guys are focused on a cosmetic one that doesnt even matter. Wish blizz would just say no! You are not and never ill get 2 handed weapons back, move on.
OK, I don’t really care that much about if people get to mog one way or the other, that’s fine either way for me. But I’ve noticed that there’s definitely something more to 2h Shaman arguments from the rest of those.
When I see people argue for the rest of those, it’s in reference to the visual appeal. I could be wrong, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone talk about the gameplay aspect excluding Single Minded Fury coming up, it’s always purely about the visual appeal.
When I see people argue for 2h Shaman, however, they frequently refer to how it “was better” gameplay-wise. And, while I can understand the visual appeal, I don’t get the gameplay appeal, but for some reason it always comes up.