Worry about your own class hunter. MM got some major nerf too and BM isn’t looking any better in m+. Only have SV left. Too bad pugs don’t like SV.
3 Likes
Ok, maybe you misunderstood here: He was using the rankings of the top tanks in each class to show how far down the top druid in the world was behind other classes.
Why do you think the poster’s play style has anything to do with how Guardian druids are after 10.0.5? That is the topic of conversation, not someone’s ability in dungeons.
4 Likes
Maybe i did take it the wrong way. I was just pointing out that its possible with druid in its current form to push the highest content. If he wants them buffed so its easier and less taxing to reach that content fair enough
Did you read literally a single word in this thread, or hell this forum? Nobody is asking for “easier” content - they are asking for druids to be brought in line with other tanks in their ability to withstand damage. Meaning if the best warrior in the world can survive a hit using their kit, then the best guardian druid in the world should be able to survive the same hit using their kit.
Guardian survivability was crap before the patch, and it’s even worse now. This is the topic of conversation. Either contribute or move on.
4 Likes
Thats a hard pass for me. I enjoy the tanks being different and am firmly against this type of vanilla homogenization. By your logic prot war should be able to battle rez then right? What about stampeding roar, seems unfair that prot war doesnt have something to increase group movement. If the best druid can battle rez the best prot war should be able to battle rez?
You serious ?
4 Likes
Not really no I was being over dramatic to make a point. Equal tanks equals boring. The druid needs some buffs to eliminate their scaling issues for higher keys, we DO NOT NEED EVERY TANK TO MITIGATE THE SAME.
This has nothing to do with survivability. Being able to battle rez is utility - not survivability. A tank’s job is to be able to take big hits and survive. Every tank should have tools to help them do that. Guardian druids do not have the tools to survive like other tanks do.
Blood DK’s and Demon Hunters have a ton of self healing and magic damage reductions.
Warriors have self mitigation like shield block and ignore pain.
Monks have stagger and expel harm and are great at kiting mobs.
Paladins have self heals, immunities, can disepel themselves, have a 15 second CD AOE interrupt, and are probably the highest DPS tank class out there.
Druids do not have these same tools. Our self healing is weaker than a DH or DK, our self mitigation is essentially nonexistent, there is no magic damage reduction, and our health pools - which used to be Druid’s bread and butter and how druids stayed viable for so long - are actually lower than any other tank class out there at the same ilvls.
This is what I mean when I say “kit”. If the top warrior in the world can take a 500k hit and survive using their kit (200k ignore pain absorb, 100k block), than a druid should be able to survive using their kit. This has nothing to do with battle rezes or speed boosts.
6 Likes
they should mitigate the same the difference should be what can you add to that mitigation
2 Likes
Utility is a huge piece of the puzzle for tanks, its not just about taking hits. Utility is def considered in the overall package that you are getting with tanks. You cant just dismiss all the advantages a class has as irrelevant to make your point stronger. I cant even count the amount of times BR has saved a mythic plus group from wiping
I agree with this, Druids should have the highest health and its current state is pretty inexplicable. In fact I think if you boost the health pool by about 30 percent it would fix most of the issues
Ok, let’s use your example then:
There are 2 other tank classes with better survivability that have the ability to battle rez. The DK and the Paladin - and they can take big hits.
Yes utility is a piece of the puzzle for tanks, but to be a viable tank, they HAVE to be able to take big hits. In fact, it is a requirement for a good tank to be able to take the hits. That is why holy priests can’t tank. They can’t take a hit.
Do guardian druids have utility? Yes. Does that utility make druids better tanks? No. Is our utility unique to druid tanks? No.
Please don’t play the “but you bring a speed boost and a battle rez” - game. A pally tank can brez, has better survivability, and arguably brings more utility to the table than a druid. A resto/feral/balance druid can offer the same utility as a guardian druid, and be more useful to your team.
I mean you want to talk tank utility, lets:
- AMZ from DK’s offer 20% magic damage reduction party wide, and a brez
- Darkness from DH’s - 20% chance to avoid all damage party wide, and an AOE stun
- Warriors have rallying cry - 15% HP increase for 10 seconds, an AOE taunt/interrupt, an AOE stun, AOE slows, and an AOE fear.
- Paladins have AOE interrupts, AOE stuns, Bleed reduction, immunity (2 bubbles), self and party wide heals, dispels (poison and disease), and Devotion aura
- Guardian druids have a party wide speed boost, and a brez.
Do you see the difference? Other tanks offer unique survivability utility to their party/raid. Guardian druids do not. Guardian druids used to make up for that by being the beefy meatbags with double the HP other tanks had, and being one of the only tank classes with a brez. Both of those advantages have gone away and what we are left with is a tank that is lagging behind every other tank class in the game when it comes to survivability.
3 Likes
Yes I understand your point. I will say you have forgotten that Guardian also gets AOE interrupt, group vers buff, revive, dash, root, CC, Innervate, long range abilities for pulling (moonfire) , immunity to poly, uncapped AOE, oh and high DPS.
Edit: Forgot to add stealth, AOE snare, and knockback. I am sure there are more utility spells I am missing but to just say group speed and BR is def underselling it
I disagree, but I’m too lazy to explain, I’m just saying some of theese need to get out of bear, and getting out of bear form = death, plus all tanks have somthing for range pulls…, imunity to poly outside pvp? who cares. Not enought points points to get knockback. But i understand your point but the problem is deeper than that.
“Guardian also gets AOE interrupt” - no they get an incapacitating roar that is canceled by any damage. Yes it works as an interrupt, but not very well.
“group vers buff” - Can be provided by any spec druid
“revive” - again, any class that can revive has this spell
“dash” - what class doesnt have a dash now?
“root” - see above
“CC” - what CC?
“Innervate” - yeah let me stop tanking the boss and switch to caster form to give my priest free casting for 10 seconds, Oh wait I died because the boss crit me in caster form.
“Long range abilities for pulling” - you mean like any other tank class?
“immune to poly” - what mobs poly in DF Mythics?
“uncapped AOE” - And yet, guardian druids’ damage is still the lowest of any tank spec.
“oh and high DPS” - the only thing high here is you if you think druids pull higher DPS than any other tank spec available. (Source: https: //www. warcraftlogs. com/zone/statistics/32#)
“Forgot to add stealth” - wait, bears can stealth? Not useful in group content where you are the front line.
“AOE Snare and knockback” - again, available to ANY druid spec.
I will say it again so you can maybe understand:
The key words there are “unique” and “to the party/raid”. Having a brez is not unique. Neither is an AOE snare. The point is, other classes have these abilities, and can do a better job tanking because they have better tools. I’m not sure what part of that you are missing.
3 Likes
He’s been trolling on the druid forums since the nerf happened just ignore him
6 Likes
Yes but having revive saves a ton of time if healer dies and would otherwise have to run back
Prot War
Prot war doesnt have this
Hibernate
Prot war pull with heroic throws is annoying and i would have to check but feels way shorter range
Azure Vaults floor trap
No not highest DPS, but they are in the top 3 for tanks
Plenty useful for skips
Just because these abilities are not your favourite doesnt mean they are useless or should be completely discounted.
Why are you here?
Seeing you pop up all over druid forums for no other reason but to just spout nonsense. Is this just something you are into? Im very curious, I dont post on forums, but I do like to read the constructive feedback druids are giving, a lot of which are very well thought out, then you show up to, what im guessing, is to troll?
5 Likes
I play a druid as well, my intention is to discuss the issues they are having and improve my general knowledge about druids. Im not trying to troll I just think these over dramatic druid are unplayable opinions are more hurtful than helpful. They distract from discussing any of the real issues and to me the ones saying they are not a viable tank are the the ones trolling