Well if we want to use the numbers so elegantly provided by our unbiased friend here:
With buffs and talents thats up to 15000+ armor or 72+% reduction. It’s an ungodly amount of dodge though…are we sure that’s unbuffed? Anyway, if we forgo block as it’s mitigation contribution is variable we are left with… I can’t do it, let’s go with 11.53% dodge instead. That leaves 31.61% mitigation from gear. Combine those together to get 80.85% mitigation.
Let’s say feral gets to the armor cap at 75% then you have the
to get 80.45% mitigation. I said mitigation was similar didn’t I?
I’m not sure what buffs would give you 7.3k armor.
Devotion Aura - 919 Armor
Mark of the Wild - 385 Armor
Elixir of Superior Defense - 450 Armor
What else am I missing?
That was with the highest mitigation/avoidance gear I could find. It sacrifices some Armor and Defense in favor of higher avoidance.
For example, Unmelting Ice Girdle over Deathbone. 1 less Defense, but 14 Agility is close to 0.75% dodge. Dodge is just the most common form of avoidance found on gear because of Agility and such.
If you dropped some dodge, you could gain Defense, Stamina, or Armor.
Scroll of Protection - 240
Stoneshield potion - 2000
Inspiration - 25%
Toughness - 10%
Agility - minimum of 200
I had this same issue trying to convince people before classic release that druids were a valid tank that could tank almost anything (if you lose the nefarian class call lottery tank = dead). It was really hard to convince people that “not warrior” = good enough to down classic content with available knowledge. “If they ain’t better at everything, then they ain’t worth the raid spot.” That kind of thing.
It should have close to 100% uptime with buffs for raids.
To rely on a buggy mechanic to make yourself feasible seems a little out there…on top of that it won’t even show your correct threat on threat meters, so how can dps judge when to go hard or not?
sorry no… it does not show on threat meters…it is still not on par with other classes threat output… it relies on mana and a regent which can both deplete…and you are doing no damage.
Do not get me wrong it is a great trick… and would make pally viable as a 5man tank… but for raids, even that is not enough to make them viable to actually use.
and please do not think I am hating on prot pally… I am not, I love them in TBC and wrath after they were fixed…
but in vanilla, prot is a broken spec. very similar to a boomkin.
Its a blessing (no pun), we used to a holy paladin with righteous fury on to pull new waves of adds right to the OT in certain fights so he didnt have to rin around like mad to pick up new mobs entering the fight. Whether you’re holy, ret or prot its simple… if you don’t want threat, dont ise RF.
You can add Scroll of Protection to Feral, as well, then.
You can add Stoneshield Potion to Feral, as well, then.
Toughness was already accounted for.
I suppose the added Agility can add a small amount.
As for Inspiration, that just sets a soft cap on your armor. If…
… then armor above 13,812 would be “close to 100%” worthless.
Pretty sure Scroll won’t stack with the Elixir, the way the Scroll of Stamina won’t stack with Fort as it occupies the same buff “slot” for that stat.
Even with Stoneshield, you’re not adding 7500 additional armor with Inspiration proc’d. I’m not even sure Inspiration applies to flat sources of Armor like Devotion Aura, Mark of the Wild, and Agility.
Regardless, even if a Paladin perfectly matches a Druid on Armor, which would be at the cap where Druids can go no further, you’re always behind on EH because Druids start with nearly a Flask worth of free flat Health from Dire Bear Form, and gain 20% more Health from Stamina thanks to Heart of the Wild. And Stamina isn’t something Druids find hard to stack with the rest of our stats, and that also means we scale that much better with buffs.
Of all the inflection points to select, you picked BWL. It just doesn’t make any sense when that is literally when Paladins are at their very worst as Tanks. No good gear, no modifiers to prop them up. AQ20/40 at least gap fills everything but bracers (I think Green Dragonds drops something) and chest, but Druids also gain by leaps and bounds here as well.
Spare me. I already did that show 15yrs ago and the only way it worked was with hard figures and substantiated theorycrafting. So far… I’m wholly unconvinced you know what you’re talking about.
Unless you have a Priest whose sole job is to ensure Inspiration stays up constantly, it isn’t going to be 100% uptime. The Tank is simply not going to require that kind of spam healing from more than one Priest.
Gonna have to test this when I get back, because I was never getting even near 25% last time I checked. I’m genuinely surprised if it makes all Armor sources have a multiplier.
M’kay checked and yeah, it’s 25% on the nose no matter the source of Armor. I’m going to blame my Priest assistant from before not having full points or something because… phew.
Still, that just means a Druid chain-chugging Stoneshield with a powershift-macro and Inspiration can go for some spectacularly good DPS/TPS pieces without blinking. 11k Armor between all other raid buffs and gear is trivial for a Druid to maintain if Inspiration can be relied upon whatsoever.
If its already been said that it wont change for all of classic, and we are playing classic. What does the fact that it wasn’t intended change? This is like saying getting feared through a wall is a bug, a bug that lasted to what Wrath?
Back to my point, of what are you arguing for? It literally is everything I have said.
You dont need to gear for Hit/Crit/Threat as a paladin at all to tank with this method. All things that make Druid and Warrior weaker in one respect or another. You want to talk about how much damage a tank does an why it matters. Paladins are able via class stacking to generate more reliable threat sooner ( at range) without making the raid wait at any point. Even if that saves 1 to 2 GCD for all of the DPS, you tell me how a tank makes that damage up over the course of a 2 to 3 min fight.
Before I hear this, paladins are loathed for needing every stat in the world to play ret or prot/, and now that they literally need* nothing on their gear to generate threat I really would like to see how any of you spin this in a negative light.
Yes the class has massive flaws. No body here is arguing that paladins suddenly became perfect.
The whole game has massive deficiencies yet some love it because of them while others love it in spite of them.
We can math this out until our eyes bleed but it won’t change the fact that someone who loves Prot pally is going to do a better job tanking than someone who didn’t want to tank in the first place but was forced into a respec just to satisfy an unnecessary meta.
That doesn’t mean it isn’t a bug, and the consequent holding of aggro due to its use isn’t any less buggy.
That is a bug, yes.
Even if Druids or Warriors gear entirely for mitigation in the same way a Paladin can do with this method, we would be doing more DPS.
The only benefit is that you can generate similar amounts of threat without having to gear for it, which is not nearly as valuable if your tanks are not struggling to stay alive in the first place.
The raid doesn’t have to wait at any point with a Druid or Warrior, either.
We’re not spinning this in a negative light. It is the other shortcomings that this bug does not allow them to overcome.
What does this bug change for Prot Paladins? Now they can hold aggro. Okay, that’s good. That wasn’t the only problem Prot Paladin had.
No one can force you to respec.
In any case, a Warrior who was “forced” to respec to tank would still probably be better than a passionate Prot Paladin, solely because Prot Paladin just isn’t as good.