Righteous Fury Mechanics == OP Paladin Threat (1k+ TPS)

[Theloras-herod]

Paying 30 silver every 1.5 seconds to hold aggro.

Honestly, if you’re willing to go to those lengths to make yourself viable, I commend you. You still have mana issues, a lack of taunt, generally poorer mitigation, and worse DPS, but hey, you can hold aggro for 12g a minute.

Symbols cost 1 silver, 35 copper each. Reagent Vendors sell them in stacks of 20 for 27 silver. It’s pretty cheap.

OhBADson just got PWND

[Shocktastic-mankrik]

I agree OP. Especially since Paladins didn’t have a taunt in vanilla/Classic, so they need all the help with threat they can get. If a mob peels away from you, it’s damn hard to get it back unless you BoP it’s target, but that’s a 5min CD so not all that useful except as a 1 off dire situation like preventing a healer death.

Whether it’s considered OP or not, I’m in favor of it remaining the same as well since 5 mans are the only content Paladins can tank effectively. Once you start raiding, Warriors far exceed any other class in that role hands down.

[Ohshiftson-stalagg]

Symbols cost 1 silver, 35 copper each. Reagent Vendors sell them in stacks of 20 for 27 silver.

Ah, you’re right.

Okay, so… you can hold aggro for 54 silver a minute. Still kind of a bad deal, imo.

OhBADson just got PWND

Oh, hey, it’s you. You’re only level 17. LOL

[Askalon-pagle]

Okay, so… you can hold aggro for 54 silver a minute. Still kind of a bad deal, imo.

I don’t get your point.
Every role has a bunch of consumables/buffs to use if they really want to push their limits, and they all take gold or time to attain. It’s like calling mages and warlocks who pop major mana potions on every CD tryhards. Or telling melee DPS who spend all day farming Jujus in Winterspring that they’re wasting their time.

[Ohshiftson-stalagg]

I don’t get your point.

You’re having to buy stacks upon stacks of reagents at a relatively high cost just to be able to hold aggro when the other two tank specs can do it for absolutely free.

Relatively high cost, insofar as you’re having to spend money to use your abilities.

It’s like calling mages and warlocks who pop major mana potions on every CD tryhards.

Not really, because Prot Paladin is going to have to do that, too, and Major Mana Potions aren’t necessary for casters to do their rotation.

Mages have Evocation. Warlocks have Life Tap. If the DPS is good enough, you won’t even need Major Mana Potions.

[Askalon-pagle]

You’re having to buy stacks upon stacks of reagents at a relatively high cost just to be able to hold aggro when the other two tank specs can do it for absolutely free.

Relatively high cost, insofar as you’re having to spend money to use your abilities.

And I don’t have a problem with that. I’ll just farm gold like everybody else does to pay for their raid consumables, which is nothing revolutionary over the past 15 years of WoW.
At the very least, I’ve demonstrated that it is possible to out-threat warrior tanks in raid scenarios, and I’m more than satisfied with that.

This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

[Ohshiftson-stalagg]

At the very least, I’ve demonstrated that it is possible to out-threat warrior tanks in raid scenarios, and I’m more than satisfied with that.

Honestly, if you’re willing to go to those lengths to make yourself viable, I commend you. You still have mana issues, a lack of taunt, generally poorer mitigation, and worse DPS, but hey, you can hold aggro for 54 silver a minute.

[Zeliek-moon-guard (Zeliek)]

Currently the requisite number of symbols is greatly overshadowed by the price of other consumables, at least on my server. It’s literally just a couple runs in SM to cover the cost.

[Zenetta-proudmoore (Zenetta)]

What’s the base threat value for regular blessings? Casting a seal? Casting righteous fury itself? Is there a complete list anywhere? Just curious since the wowhead threat table only has the values for most warrior abilities and doesn’t list the buff threat values for the other classes.

I’m guessing gblessings are probably the only useful buff for them threat wise since it’s a raid wide per-class buff, but you never know! If regular blessings were 60 threat also, it would be less threat per mana than conc, though you could use it to generate threat on mobs at a distance or something in a 5 man.

[Askalon-pagle]

I’m guessing gblessings are probably the only useful buff for them threat wise since it’s a raid wide per-class buff, but you never know! If regular blessings were 60 threat also, it would be less threat per mana than conc, though you could use it to generate threat on mobs at a distance or something in a 5 man.

You’re very spot-on with your observations!

Don’t forget that Righteous Fury will increase the threat from ANY of your paladin abilities, so you can multiply base threat by x1.9 (with improved RF).
The base threat value of Blessings and most other paladin abilities tend to be the level that they’re learnt at. For example, if you learn Blessing of Might Rank 6 at level 52, then it will have a base threat of 52, and with Imp RF it’d be 98 threat. Regular blessings only affect one person at a time though so it’s not that much threat, although the long cast range is something to note, as you mentioned.

In general, Greater Blessings have the highest threat potential because their base threat is multiplied by the number of people affected. Greater Blessing of Kings is the best option because it has the lowest mana cost out of all the Greater Blessing spell. Blessing of Wisdom and its Greater counterpart do not generate any threat at all.

In the Onyxia tanking video, I was spamming Greater Blessing of Kings.
With 9 mages (1 was dead at the start of the fight ), the threat I was getting per cast was:
60 * 9 * 1.9 = 1026 threat
If continuously spamming GBoK with 1.5 GCD, that’d be about 684 TPS on its own. This greatly exceeds the threat potential of traditional threat generation abilities such as Consecration, Seal of Righteousness, and other Holy damage abilities.

With the large amount of threat that I’m generating with GBoK spam, I can simplify my rotation to:

• JoW and SoW for mana regen (approx. 125 to 190 MP5 excluding gear and cons)
• Holy Shield for mitigation
• GBoK spam for threat generation

I haven’t tested the base threat from Righteous Fury or Seal spells since they don’t seem like a mana-efficient threat generation abilities to spam.

Is there a complete list anywhere? Just curious since the wowhead threat table only has the values for most warrior abilities and doesn’t list the buff threat values for the other classes.

I will make sure to add a table with base threat values of important paladin spells on my protection paladin guide in the near-future.
classic[dot]wowhead[dot]com/guides/lights-bulwark-protection-paladin-tanking

[Chainhealbot-arugal]

RET or nothing tbh

[Feuerhuf-hyjal (Feuerhuf)]

• Creative use of unintended game mechanics
• Confirmed bug, therefore should be fixed
• In the meantime, if a tank wants to spend additional gold to hold aggro, that’s their affair
• I personally despise gimmicks as anything other than curiosities

[Ravid-whitemane]

Post this in the bug report forum. the only thing people in this forum do is argue with and insult you for daring to suggest anything is at all wrong with the game

[Laruya-faerlina]

Ony cant be taunted anyway. GG warr

[Coveiled-arugal]

Considering that people whinged until what was essentially a bug or limitation in implementation was manually recreated in spell batching, if the bug existed in vanilla, it stays.

[Amelioratus-aegwynn]

I’m really happy about this! It seems that lolprot might be viable after all. So much for vanilla being a solved game. Kudos to the OP and I hope prot pallies find their niche in raids. OK, shammy tanks next:)

[Heavyweight-proudmoore (Heavyweight)]

Thanks to OP for posting this, with videos and detailed description.

Buffs being viewed as a threat seems reasonable, but the spamming part of it seems like a bug doesn’t it? Just like demo shout spam?

[Askalon-pagle]

Buffs being viewed as a threat seems reasonable, but the spamming part of it seems like a bug doesn’t it? Just like demo shout spam?

Similar to Battle Shout, the threat of Greater Blessings is intended to be multiplied by the number of players buffed in a single cast.

That part that remains contested is whether Righteous Fury bug should be unaltered b/c #nochanges and continue to affect the threat of Greater Blessings and non-damaging Holy spells in general, similar to how Defensive Stance affects Battle Shout threat.

[Reyoko-pagle]

Gonna say its a bug.

Back in OG spamming battleshout on people who already had it didnt raise threat. It was only the initial cast.

Im inclined to think the same with pally blessings

[Askalon-pagle]

Back in OG spamming battleshout on people who already had it didnt raise threat. It was only the initial cast.

If you have any proof, whether it’s videos, forum discussions, or patch notes on it, it’d be awesome if you could share it. I searched through entire patch history of Vanilla and couldn’t find anything related to that.