Prior to Nazjatar, the Horde were basically done. And, somewhat ironically, the kaldorei still had the bulk of their military after the Burning, which is what allowed them to walk over the Horde forces in Darkshore. Had Tyrande and Malfurion elected to systematically purge Kalimdor of any Horde presence, I’m not sure there is anyone who could have stopped them.
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So you genuinely think Alliance is capable of wiping out the Horde? I never got this impression.
I don’t think that most of the Alliance is much better off than the Horde, but BFA could only kick off the way that it did with the kaldorei military chasing a false lead. Horde didn’t win a single upfront fight throughout that period on land or sea, which points to them being sorely outnumbered and outgunned.
All of that is ignoring the elephant in the room that is Alliance Superhero Characters versus a faction full of basic warriors at this point.
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With the Alliance running away from the Horde in both Battle of Dazar’alor and not having a strong enough force to siege orgimmar without Horde assistance I don’t see why Alliance should be considered as a faction that can end the other player faction if it were inclined to.
if every Horde win was a cowardly act then every Alliance victory was a circumstantial win. Most of the war campaign was basically undoing a victory the Horde had already scored to bring us back to square one.
Org was due to Tyrande rightly refusing to take part in Saurfang’s rebellion. That, and Sylvanas backroom dealing with Azshara to demolish both fleets (what little remained of the Horde, at least).
Dazar’Alor was a 100%, straight up victory for Blue. A small strike team accomplishing its goal before withdrawing is not a retreat, it is mission complete.
Arathi was a straight up loss. Darkshore was reversed as soon as Horde forces had to engage with a military force, as opposed to just killing civilians and a token defensive force plus Malfurion (which was still a bit of a meatgrinder for them). All of which was stupid to begin with, especially the part where all The Wild Gods arbitrarily decided to let the Nelves die for no reason. All of WoT just required breaking so much lore to unfold, it is hard to conceive of it as anything other than cdev loathing Nelves.
They should have just all agreed to have the Vindicaar Lightsmite Sylvanas and Saurfang from orbit during their duel.
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King Varian at the end of MoP made that statement that his forces were superior to the Horde’s. He mentioned the Alliance navy had 200 ships in his fleet at the onset of that war. Even if the majority of the Alliance fleet was destroyed in the interim. The Alliance has more people than the Horde, and by virtue of attrition can still hold out longer. Kul’Tirans also are able to rebuild their fleet after Naz’jatar and with a united nation they would be quick at getting their navy fleet to the Alliance superior forces.
I agree with your assessment, and I feel like the Alliance fleet has been devastated by the Fourth War especially after Azshara did her shenanigans. Still even with their losses, I suspect given enough time the Alliance will rebound faster since they have the lumber, population, and technology to mass produce their fleets if they needed to. Especially the Kul’tirans.
Night Elves were still present. The general of NE armies was personally there to lead her troops. So its not exactly that Alliance was short staffed.
If the Alliance was so militarily superior that they could have smashed the Horde and Zandalari forces then why go through the trouble of sacrificing alliance soldiers to create a distraction to send a small force and run away as soon as the Horde shows up? Success or not this doesn’t speak to how militarily superior Alliance supposedly is.
Probably the only legit victory the Alliance scored in all of BFA. Darkshore? Just raiding a garrison farming wood. Horde didn’t even bother sending their own leaders to fight for this location. They just used undead NEs to command a few goblins and forsaken.
And one horde champion on a bat would have snuck in and blown it up. 
Simply put there is just no evidence the Alliance could ever canonically end the Horde as a faction. There is just no evidence it.
Dude, if their goal was to do X, and they do X, that is not losing or retreating. They crippled the Horde fleet, job done, which resulted in fewer casualties than the alternative. The dumb writing angle was that they were supposed to be scaring Zandalar off of joining the Horde. I have no clue which nitwit thought that sounded sensible, but their fleet was the reason the Horde wanted them to join in the first place.
The Vindicaar bit was sarcastic, but highlighting that the Alliance has some legit superpowers on their roster that stay on a leash because King Chinlet overrides everyone around him by existing.
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Been playing this faction for years and years. At no point did I ever have the impression that the Alliance could ever realistically pose an existential threat to the Horde.
Same with the Horde, if they want Darkshore, they get darkshore, if they want to steal a scepter, they steal the scepter, if they want to sink the Kultiran fleet then they will. Horde has just as much capability to accomplish these great objectives.
A quick glance at the world map ingame will show how capable the Horde is. This notion that Alliance is somehow better or stronger than the Horde is player driven. There is no evidence for it.
I can name you more examples of Horde militarily accomplishing a task or negating an Alliance ever could but you would discard them as a fluke… there are way too many flukes. The Horde isn’t the underdog in these conflicts. They are the overdog superpower.
That … doesn’t mean he didn’t break it. The same person can both introduce and break lore.
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Yeah, Horde took Darkshore. And then the scepter they stole was inexplicably being used against them the next day lol. We aren’t even talking about Horde potential what-ifs here (as if mentioning what the narrative team could create by sheer fiat in the future is somehow an argument against what exists now). You tried to spin a hard victory for your faction as a humiliating defeat for some reason. Or it didn’t “count” because the Horde has won before or could conceivably be written to win elsewhere. Okay?
I’m sitting here literally talking about how the Horde gets plot armor due to stupid writing and Anduin and you’re still slamming away on the Alliance Victimhood Drum. I don’t care. I am not interested in comparing scars over a bowl of diarrhea. Horde in BFA had it plainly spelled out for them they were losing the war, badly, right before Nazjatar released. Pushed out of territories on the ground, wildly outnumbered fleet, etc. All of that sounds to you like a dominant power apparently. Horde Council complaining about empty treasuries and desperate on the ropes: sheer confidence in their dominance, I guess.
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I am just telling you that if Alliance goes full Scarlet tomorrow.
They can’t ever exterminate the Horde. Even without the meta gameplay restrictions.
They lack the capability of doing it as it has been well established so far. It is a misconception by the playerbase.
There is simply zero evidence that Alliance is capable of such a thing.
It is hilarious to me that the person frothing at the mouth about The Alliance being allowed to punch back for a change is now adamant that they aren’t capable of doing so. You’ve victimhooded yourself into attacking your own position.
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Punching back and utterly wiping out the Horde in every continent and city are completely different things.
You are the one on a tirade about how the Alliance is this unstoppable Juggernaut with endless armies, treasure and could vaporize the Horde with a gaze. That simply isn’t true.
Yes, I said all of those things exactly like that. I surely didn’t explicitly qualify that both are diminished to skeleton crews except for the Kaldorei military (citizens are another story). One push on Orgrimmar at the end of BFA would have been the Horde dismantled if Tyrande hadn’t inexplicably decided Sylvanas was enough. Just like could have been done at the end of MoP with Varian.
If the writing made any kind of sense, most of the Horde would have deserted by now. Certainly Baine and Lor’themar (and by extension, Mayla and Thalyssra).
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Even with Saurfang’s forces Andiun did not have enough people to lay siege to Orgrimmar.
Unless you are saying Tyrande would single handedly can do what an entire army + murder hobos of azeroth can’t.
Probably but that is much different than the insinuation that the Horde only exists by the grace and mercy of the Alliance.
Frankly, Night Warrior Tyrande and Malfurion should be able to given how stupidly op they are. But again, what is consistency in the face of myopic writing? But, no, I’m pointing out Tyrande’s armies weren’t heavily involved in the situations that turned the other standing armies into skeleton crews.
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With Shandris there + the Night Elves and worgen + Genn.
There is no reasonable reason to assume the Alliance was working at any reduced capacity besides assuming Tyrande and Malfurion can kill all the horde by themselves.
a single axe put Malfurion out of the fight. There are plenty of axes in Orgrimmar, just saying.
Pretty sure they were expelling the Horde from Darkshore and Ashenvale. I would be very surprised if the intent was that the entirety of the kaldorei forces were showing up at Orgrimmar without Tyrande or Malfurion in tow.
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Tyrande herself was indeed missing, timelines are kind of weird but there is no indication at any point in the story that Alliance was not at full force or the reason why Andiun was fighting with a reduced force was because his allies were holding out on him.
Even if Tyrande had forces still at Darkshore then so did the horde so it cancels each other out.
idk why you are so intent to argue that the Alliance is so damn powerful, there is no indication that they are.
Even if you point towards Lordaeron that Alliance finally managed to punch through despite Andiun’s incompetence in the end its confirmed that Sylvanas prepared for all of it.
Horde can’t fully destroy the Alliance and Alliance can’t fully destroy the Horde… I don’t think i am crazy by stating that.
I will grant you that besides Sylvanas Tyrande or Malfurion can probably take anyone on in the Horde but 1 vs horde as a whole? I don’t think its going to work out.
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