Revisiting Forest Trolls

Lore Story Forum
62

Honestly I think making Zul’Aman and Zul’Gurub dungeons instead of raids, was a big huge mistake on Blizzard’s part.

I mean they were troll cities that were literally infused with the power of their gods. If a raid on one of the Alliance or Horde cities was a 5 man dungeon, people would be raging.

ZA - A kingdom the elves of Quel’Thalas had issues with for many years, and had massive colossal wars with: "Oh yeahnah just send 5 people. She’ll be right mate."

ZG - Another kingdom that wrought troubles all over Stranglethorn and was once pinnacle of the southern Eastern Kingdoms - "Oi bro, that army we had to send before was just rubbish. 5 people ought to do it good."

I’d like if they also revealed only certain handfuls of Loa & Wild Gods go to Ardenweald when they die, as some have their own realms of afterlife - whether for better or worse of those they choose to bring there.

Additionally on the Trolls subject, there’s a few storylines Blizz could roll with to impliment friendly factions from the not-so-friendlies or even bring into the fold long lost tribes with dark stories. For instance:

  • Drakkari Tribe: A pocket faction of the Drakkari Tribe that hid & protected both the major Loa that survived (From Quests in Zul’Drak), and other Loa not as revered.
    . . . . . . . .
  • Shadowtooth Clan: A sum of survivors from the Shadowtooth Clan from Hyjal, that the initial large story was they were wiped out by the Twilight’s Hammer, but having a sinister truth that the story was only a piece of their story – And the Night Elves by Tyrande’s orders took advantage of the situation, ordering a rain of fiery arrows to be sent down upon their village along with the Twilight’s Hammer ‘Two birds with one stone’ towards her declaration of “Removing Troll filth from Kal’dorei land!”.

With the Zandalari now on the Horde, the Horde could also have a ‘Council of Trolls’ unifying various named empires under the banner to make roleplaying X forest Troll race - canon. Much like the dwarves can do in the Alliance with their clans (eg. Wildhammer).

They could do a thing with various pocket factions being cut out from larger groups, with seperate ideals but same revered culture (Whether it be Loa, Wild Gods, or otherwise) – Much like Darkspear (They were originally part of the Gububashi Tribe), then have the masses that remain potentially unify (Not with the Horde) as an enemy once again ready for a beatdown.

Personally though I’d like an expansion where multiple threats come at the same time - Not a cosmic-threat, but still a dire-force not to be left unchecked / potentially dangers that could over-run the cities if left to their own devices - somewhat like it was in Classic.

Such a concept could be such as Centuar armies amassing and taking over many lands & settlements with the aid of the Botani, whilst the Quillbore are contemplating joining them with their great numbers causing issues, have large unified masses of the not-so-friendly-trolls in both continents, Scourge on loose in the Eastern Kingdoms seeking to reclaim ‘lost lands’ (Lets say Eastern & Western Plaguelands are now renamed Eastern & Western Lordaeron) and have a ‘Rising Legion’ (Remains of the Burning Legion that seek to rise to their former glory) all arising at once in separate armies around Azeroth – Causing mass panic & dire threats.

I feel such an expansion would be a good opportunity to revisit expanding & imprinting the denizens of Azeroth’s cultures and people, whether it be Troll, Dwarves, Draenie and Blood Elves.

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63

I always do this. I think I have nothing to add, then I’ll go cap my fishing on yet another alt and think about it for a bit. And then I’ll think of something to add.

The Revantusk have had it bad. Prior to the Horde’s involvement with them, they were attacked on all side; other forest trolls attacked them, the Wildhammers attacked them. So in a hypothetical revamp, I’d want them to take the success they had making an alliance with the Horde, and give alliances a shot.

I’d want for this hypothetical revamp of the Hinterlands that has both Jintha’Alor and Revantusk Village (lands the imperialistic humans and dwarves haven’t been able to take from the trolls for almost 3000 years, mind) updated as a minor Revantusk city to also have the Revantusk in a loose alliance with the Wildhammers.

The Revantusk involvement in the 4th war was non-existent, beyond having emissaries in Zul’dazar. Not entirely sure how much the Wildhammers were involved, but I can’t imagine any involvement they might have had would preclude the two putting their weapons down against each other and trying to peacefully coexist. I’d like them both to realize that fighting each other was ultimately futile, and they’d both benefit from if not working together, then having a trade agreement. And I’d want this to be a thing they both worked out for themselves, with no involvement from either the Horde or Alliance.

Basically I’d want for players, still tasting residual salt from BfA, to walk into this revamped Hinterlands to see the “hostile” faction flagged as neutral and have a bit of a WTF moment until they learn the story. Then to see Horde races and Alliance races don’t need to be aggro towards each other 98% of the time.

And it was the forgotten trolls and the “other white dwarves” who managed to put the bullcrap to the side to do what these massive factions never seem able to.

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64

The Wildhammers were pretty heavily involved in the 4th War and spearheaded a lot of Alliance operations in both Kul Tiras and Zandalar.

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65

I don’t see the point of tying Trolls to the the Emerald dream especially through green dragon portals. Why not have them have access to some other part of the dream like a more primordial version with dinosaurs. develop the relationship between trolls and dinosaurs similar to how Kultirian druids have a link to the nightfae in shadowlands.

Also I don’t see why forest trolls would want alterac, no forests there. I would think they would still be more interested in Silvermoon and its adjacent lands which once housed their ancient settlements and ruins.

Or have them relocate to Shalozar basin or ungoro crater and build a dinotopia.

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66

The Wildhammer already lost the Shadow Highlands to the Legion in Legion, everything was destroyed and wiped out, the clan there, so the Hinterlands remain their only remaining zone. So if it comes down to wiping out another alliance city, then another alliance people would be forced to flee and would no longer have their own hub.

I´m not sure if this would be a “ideal solution” maybe for te horde and the Forest trolls, but 100% on alliance cost, i think it would be yet again another reason for escalation in the community.

67

This is so rich coming from you its unbelievable.

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68

because he wanted to reclaim lordaeron for humanity, or?

But in one point he has a point, to force the wildhammer out of hinterland, they would lost their only remaining place right now.

69

Is the delusional Dwarf hunter making up wet fantasies about human controlled lordaeron again? Oh boi.

70

Because he’s referring to the Forest Trolls as a Dead Kingdom, yet refuses to see Lordaeron and Altarac as the same. Human Potential amirite? Gotta reclaim the Holy Lands. Though, that is a common theme with how Blizz writes this story in that ONLY Alliance races are allowed the luxury of really “reclaiming the past”. Frankly, those sinful, “savage” primitives of the Horde are having difficulties even justifying their existences thanks to Blizz’s creepy thematic undertones (which is part of why I’m a bit twitchy with a few of those “the Light can never have layers, its always Good and Benevolent” folks…) The only way a member of a Horde race can be “not evil” is dependent on convenient and submissive they are for an Alliance one. Those pure and flawless beings. Baal does have a point on how creepy that is.

Also, the Wildhammer in Cata already proved that they have many MANY people who remained in their ancestral homelands of the Highlands. Half a continent away from their relatively new capital. If Magni is right in his assertion at the end of BfA, then the Old God corruption of Azeroth is on its way out, which (while meaning many things) should mean the Wildhammer can return and reclaim/rebuild Grim Batol. Especially with the Twilight Drakes apparently having their last matriarch killed in 8.3.

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71

bad news, in part he ´s right, many areas in southern lordaeron are again under alliance/human controll. for example southshore, parts of silverpine (southern parts), western Plaguelands. Only tirisfal, northern silverpine, and the area around tarrens mill remain.

the highlands, destroyed by the legion and their entire clan there killed? YOu mean…this highlands, yeah? Don´t forget Legion, in Legion, the entire Highland Wildhammer-Clan was wiped out and destroyed.

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Tirisfal is still forsaken controlled. Read the exploring Azeroth book.

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Thats the reason i said: REMAIN!! Read again :wink:

But its takes how long until the old god corruption is complettly gone? i mean, take a look in Ulduar, Yogg’Sarons Corp triggered until now problems and corruption, his corruption plagued the entire continent of northrend until now. C’Thuns Corruption rendered the entire Desert of Silithus until today and even now, after 10.000 years, deathwings layer is still a mess of corruption in the highmountain.

We don´t know how long it will take, until this places of corruption are worthy to life.

74

God I hate Blizzard. Truly. At this point they might as well say “The only places the Horde races are allowed to exist are those reservations of land that are so environmentally destitute the Alliance races themselves don’t want them” and be done with it. Truly, quite literally the only ancestral territory the Forest Trolls retain and now Blizz has forced a situation where the entirety of the Wildhammer “has to” take up residents there. And I have no doubt that Blizz will make the Forest Trolls in the territory the baddies. The Legion literally attacks everywhere on the planet, but only the Wildhammer is “scattered” in the Highlands (though the Dragonmaw still have holdings there … somehow)? And we hear absolutely nothing about it from either Kurdran or Felstad? Seriously Blizz…

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75

We have litteraly no idea in which position the dragonmaw atm are, the last time we heard about them was in 5.4, since then, absolutly zero information.

maybe to build up a new conflict for the future, maybe it will be a forest troll wildhammer conflict, we don´t know.

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Yeah, I’m sure that will go well. I can’t wait for Blizz to do what they always do and show the Horde race in that conflict as evil vial monsters. We’ll get to see them default back to their good ol status quo for Troll writing; and if it drags in the Horde (who frankly would be hard pressed to even justify self defense at this point) … all the better. Seriously, I don’t always agree with Baal, but he is right that subtextual coding of how Blizz writes the Horde and Alliance races is more than a bit creepy.

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77

Yeaah, thats creepy, i mean, no other place were destroyed (okay, Hyjal were partly destroyed but restored after the Druid-classhall and malornes rescue

Weren’t you even the one who constantly argues that the trolls drive the dwarves away? …I mean, you want a war, but if possible be absolutely justified in the expulsion of an entire people? How is that supposed to work? How?

You know, when you start wanting to see these things everywhere, you see them in every setting. It’s fantasy, not real world, if you start putting on real world glasses everywhere, you’re not really going to feel comfortable in any setting anymore.

And I would always advise against seeing it with this strict historical view, because there is also the other way, very very critical things that happened to the peoples of the West, or do you think the West came to power through peace and joy and not through centuries of continuous war among themselves and against invasive powers?

War formed the power of Western civilizations, centuries of bloodshed and that as real history, no fantasy can be soo cruel as real history is. We forget, because of 400 years of history, the history that happened more than 2000 years before on the continent of the old world and preceded this development and why Europe finally reached a technological progress of almost 200 years over all other countries of the world, which resulted in military superiority, inspired the idea of enlightenment (Actually, this should also end these centuries of war), initiated the foundation of states as systems and finally led to the development of diplomacy and peace politics instead of bare power politics. Warcraft is downright harmless compared to the real history of Europe.

Europe’s history is red because so much blood has been shed.

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78

You shouldn’t feel comfortable with the setting if you do hazard beneath the surface. Truly, Blizzard’s thematic writing is so bad that they’ve literally created a situation where the only possible way a member of a Horde race (a Faction comprised of an alarming amount of non Euro inspired cultures and Ex-slave races) can prove they “aren’t evil” is by how submissive and convenient they are for the clearly very Eurofantasy inspired races of the Alliance. Who are just born pure, flawless, and good. Especially those practitioners of certain sects of worship of a specific cosmological force (that while the force itself is its own thing, the inspirations for worship of it are pretty clear, even if all these “inspirations” are Hollywood brand).

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79

And you think when great African cultures enslaved whole peoples (Egypt for example enslaved whole peoples when they were in power), or when the Arab world was born and the first Muslim empires did it, it was better, then European peoples had been enslaved or subjugated.

If you look back longer than 400 years, you will realize that humanity and civilization are terrible scenes of monstrosities of power and horror.

And there were also European peoples often victims, is just not heard with pleasure, but understand already, if other peoples do that to European cultures. it is not so bad, nop, just then not, if these later became victims of European bigotry.

Whoever takes a longer look at European history, its background, injustices and things that happened to the people in Europe by invaders, will quickly realize that history merely repeats itself, and we fail again and again on the same fundamental issues. Who has power, thinks that he can rule over others, if he subjugates them militarily he proved to have more power than the other which is again a legitimation of his policy. We humans fail since civilization to another answer, ultimately the stronger prevails and the winner writes the story, although some ideas would have been objectively much better.

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80

That’s not what I’m saying. In fact, I don’t mind that the races of the Horde have a tumultuous history and are allowed cultural and racial flaws. I mind that the Alliance’s aren’t allowed to have them. For goodness sake Zahir, that’s the core of the problem. The Horde races and cultures drowning in flaws, with very few avenues towards virtues beyond “being submissive and convenient for the characters and races of the Alliance”. While the Alliance races are oversaturated in virtues, while allowed few (if any) tangible flaws. And yes, while all similarities (and inspirations) are surface level … it is downright horrific thematic messaging.

Thematic messaging I’d wager Blizz “oops’d” their way into due to their writing comfort zones (which is how they oops their way into all their horrific thematic messaging as of late), but still … its not great.

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81

Then stop interfering with the European inspiration, because if you spend just a moment longer with Europe and its history and go deeper will notice a continent where you can sometimes wonder that man has survived all that has happened here as a civilization. Through internal and external influences. (Plagues, 30 years war, two world wars, religious wars, conquerors, dictators, one does not want to enumerate everything.
I mean, our civilisation right now would collaps if 50-60% of all people would die and war harvested the land. in the same time.

The Alliance flaws would not allow the Horde to survive, removing the Alliance flaws saved the HORDE, it was not in the Alliance’s favor to change them.

You want some flaws back, for example the strongly held belief that killing the undead is the only way of salvation and mercy?

Or that it’s not a crime to kill a troll, they’re hungry beasters anyway and hunt mercilessly, or that orcs are either killed or imprisoned?

You want the flaws back in the form of racism, religious fanaticism and bigotry, then the horde wouldn’t have survived that, because rather the alliance would have gone all out in MOP than let the horde survive again. The benefit of the Alliance losing their flaws is that the Horde survived that.

Because honestly, who would have let the Horde survive after all they did except a perfect good being who believes unwaveringly in the Horde no matter what it does?

Do you really think it is to the benefit or advantage of the Alliance that they have lost their flaws or not much more to the benefit of the Horde and the Comfort Zone that the Alliance can forgive…although it follows no logic anymore?

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