I wanted to pose a question to you… Do you prefer the current talent system or the old one? Would returning to the system of individualized talent points help solve or create more problems?
I think it may:
• Reduce need for borrowed powers
• Increase player agency
• Reduce the need for gear/systems to fill old talent’s role
• Decrease need to continuously simulate your character
• Increase flexibility in play styles/blended specs
• Increase “reward” of each level you gained
• Consolidate power gains and power bloat
What do you think? Am I way off base? Are the current talents just way better than the old system? Or did taking away the old system require other areas (gear/systems) to help lift up our characters power?
I like the old ones way better. I think it opened up more possibilities and let players make up their own combinations. I think the old talents did what the new ones have, plus more.
It feels like all the borrowed power gimmicks have just been worse versions of more robust talent trees.
The old ones were too much work for the devs that was pointless. People just used cookie cutter builds so it was a waste of time creating all those talents and choices that people weren’t even using.
If this community was more capable of being creative then I’d say sure bring back the old ones, but that’s not the case.
Some classes had noticeable performance issues with the old talent trees if they didn’t follow the sims, it was just unworkable. The current talent system would be better if some rows weren’t so similar that it doesn’t feel like choice matters, or that force you to choose between damage/survivability/mobility.
Yes there were cookie cutter specs for sure. However, in my classic experience I felt as though I had choice in talents based on how I played. I chose talents based on how I played.
Now, you end up with classes with >90% choosing specific talents; aka cookie cutter. So, has that changed at all?
I like the current system much better. Too many people seem to want to live in the past… they can play Classic. I agree we need less borrowed power but going backwards is not the answer.
No it hasn’t, but the point is instead of all those abilities in the talent trees to think up and deal with they only have the few talents we now have to choose from.
It’s more streamlined so I’m sure it’s easier for the people whose job it is to think up what talent does what.
I get what you’re saying. Talents back then were a larger system and more complicated to get right and that talents now are simple and easier to control…
However, in simplifying talents they complicated other areas of the game and have shifted the burden to those. Gear (azerite especially), essences, corruption, all other things to fill the gaps created in the newer talents. Do you see what I’m saying?
Yeah. But I just don’t see the point in them doing all that if it’s just going to be a waste.
Look at all the drama going on with Covenant abilities. I’m sure that took a lot of brainstorming and hammering out details, and the community is crapping all over it because of the same thing with the talent trees, min/maxing and cookie cutter builds.
I don’t think there’s actually that much difference between the old talents and this one, I think some dev said you just click on a talent 5 times instead of once. So most of your points wouldn’t change, but the one about blended specs is true for sure, only druids’ affinity talents work like that sort of thing, everyone else is locked to their spec. It’d be neat if every class had that sort of thing.
If you meant locking the talents behind big respect costs like before, then your point of not simulating would be true, but otherwise it would be even worse since you would have a goofy amount of point combos available that might change with every drop.
I am sure that it took a lot of thought behind them for sure. However, it just seems like each expansion the devs are creating a new jenga tower of systems instead of relying on foundational systems such as talents.
Remember back when each expansion we would get new talents (even with the current system we did). It seems like they have sacrificed this idea to the gods of borrowed power.
I see a lot of counters being things like “But that talent only inceased filler damage by 2/4/6%!” Fair enough, filler talents can be droll. But if that’s the only negative, I’m hard pressed to say no considering the things they could do with more fleshed out trees.
And no, “cookie cutter??” isn’t a real argument, as cookie cutter builds still exist now, even if there are slightly fewer examples.
I think the complications were originally created by the Azerite Armor error and the fact that Blizz were stuck with a system that the expansion was based upon. However, I agree, borrowed power is frustrating, to say the least.
Agreed. Them sticking to azerite armor in its iterations was a mistake as they spent the entire expansion trying to bandaid its problems. However, how “good” did it feel to level your artifact weapon in Legion (pretty awesome tbh). BUT, how bad did it feel to have that get taken away from you at the end? Borrowed power is awful for player/character power progression.
The problem with Covenant abilities right now is the limited choice; they either have to be so similar that they seem boring and uninspired, or so different that it affects balance and choice. More choices for abilities would be a big improvement.