Return WoW to it's glory "Enchants, Gear, & Gems" #EGG

/agree (with this part)

But I’m not seeing how covenants give you this. One class ability? You could have gotten that with a trinket or a set bonus. You see a gold sink? I see a massive time sink. As one covenant ability becomes “the” ability to PvP with or to do M+ with, we grind. Then a patch comes and nerfs… then we grind to the next thing.

With gear and set bonuses, we are grinding content, typically the same dungeon and raid content we were going to grind anyway. Gold sink? What else are you going to spend gold on? A dinosaur? Gold as a currency doesn’t really mean much right now. Having something to spend it on would make it worth having again.

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As someone who is playing Classic, I’m not playing it for the same reasons I’d play retail - Retail is new, and we can look forward to things we don’t know about. Classic is a known quantity, and while it’s enjoyable, isn’t going to keep peoples’ attention forever and knowing everything isn’t always fun.

My interest will die sometime in Wrath, but retail can keep me longer if they fix the things that are broken. I miss enchants, and gems, and glyphs, and static gear. I don’t like the RNG. I don’t like the slider for each piece of gear from LFR difficulty to Mythic difficulty.

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WoW can’t ever have glory back those days are gone forever.

I really, REALLY miss being excited about gemming, reforging and enchanting up new pieces of gear.

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It’s funny you think you’re getting a choice.

ilvl 700 gear from PvP (the base ilvl, not the 730 PvP ilvl) was better than Normal HFC gear, better than Tanaan BoA tokens. 10 weeks into the last season, you could farm out a full set of conquest gear in Ashran in like a day.

And that was the fastest way to get HFC Heroic ready on an alt, just farm out Conquest, skipping large swats of PvE content.

heck yeah! enchants for every slot! multiple colors of gems with different stats! 2-4 gem slots per item piece WITH extra bonuses if you slot them all properly!
oh and lets not forget the stat-reforging and armor set bonuses. all in the name of getting rid of stuff we “don’t need”… oh and glyphs, how could I forget glyphs, give us back the good old days when glyphs could completely alter how your abilities worked, so much better.

truly it was a marvelous and streamlined system back in the day. much better than this modern “borrowed power” thing… like who cares about grinding for abilities and powers that would go away at the end of the expansion when you could have powers and abilities that would go away the second you swapped out 1 of 5 pieces of gear and broke your set bonus.

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Adding permanent class abilities sounds like a good idea in concept, but in practice what it gives us is bloat. After two or three expansions of giving classes more power and more abilites, we’d have more skill bars than a casual player could reasonably expect to keep up with.

Having said that, getting new abilities unique to your class is fun and flavorful. In this regard, I actually think Covenant abilities are an excellent compromise that allows us access to fun, cool new class abilities that dont become a new permanent fixture (which incidentally also allows Blizzard to play around with interesting mechanics in a less risky way).

As an ideal, we all want a balanced game, or at least one that does a reasonable impression of balance. I confess that adding layers of borrowed power in the way we’ve seen lately (and even moreso with class-exclusive abilities) makes balance a practical impossibility, even as I wish it didnt.

However, we have a name for games where everything stays the same all the time: dead. Some players would stick around if all Blizzard did was add new content, transmogs, and story. If the latter was really good, I would definitely be in that camp myself. But thats a only a portion of the larger comminity. New abilities, new talents, new systems engage players in a way that a “functional” game doesnt. Chess is a functional game, and I enjoy it greatly, but after a while, it gets stale without some new variant to spice it up, and WoW is the same.

So I mist repectfully disagree with you: I would rather have a broken* game than a dead game.

*PvP being its own problem, but i feel thats a more focused discussion that starts with “why are we letting PvE abilities in here?”

Oh, N’zoth, no, don’t think for a moment I like how Covenant abilities are being locked right now. The way you’re locked into abiltity choices with arbitrary, tedious restrictions on trying out new abilties reeks of “fun detected.” I love the abilities themselves (and also essences, azurite, and corruption). They’re fun and different and facilitate new playstyles. You can like the reward and hate the quest; you can like the ability and hate the system.

Admittedly, the gold loss is negligable to most. I engaged in some hyperbole. The bigger issue is that these things are boring (but saying things are boring three times is also boring, so I tried to spice it up a bit. Probably a bad move). I have never, not once, been excited to socket a +stat gem. Nor have I ever been excited to add my choice of +stat enchantment. Its a thing that’s done because its a power boost, but it adds nothing to the enjoyment of the game. It’s bland and stale. It doesnt help retain old players and it certainly doesnt bring in new players.

What makes the game fun, mechanically, is fun abilities and fresh play patterns. When I level up, I really dont care. It changes nothing. Until it unlocks a new talent row, perhaps, and I get a new ability. Thats a ding to look forward to, because it gives something new.

Artifacts and Azerite = Borrowed Power

Gems, Enchants, Slots, Upgrades, stuffthat can be made by other players = Player Power.

The players build their own power. Crafters raided for rare recipes to bring more power to the masses in exchange for more money…Guilds used to unite around a crafter and work hard to bring down that really tough boss hoping that their crafter could make them all stronger, instead of Esports sponsorship…

Thanks, OP. I couldnt quite put my finger on how all these changes took away from the game, but now that I understand how these changes altered player motivations, it became clear.

Why group with friends and allies if you are handed individual borrowed power each expack, andn one of it matters?

I for one actually like enchant/gems regardless of how generic it actually is. It gives PURPOSE to the respective professions. Everyone having 20 gem lots is a GOOD THING. Right now go to the AH and look how many scroll of enchants or gems there are. There’s an abundance because gear has neither. Go back to MoP where we could enchant/gem everything. People actually (including me) made tons of gold with PROFESSIONS.

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Gonna be honest, I wasn’t really concerned with how alts geared 10 weeks into the season, and given Mythic+ exists now with no lockout, it seems like a modern version would have a PvE alternative.

Maybe the next step would be Conquest working like Titan Residuum instead of a base currency that can be earned from random battlegrounds at the same efficiency as Playing at 2200 rating (yes I know conq rewards work differently now - I’m talking about if we went back to this route). I feel like that’s reasonable (but I’m sure there’d be blowback).

Then they shouldn’t come with the downsides built in to covenants. Let people mix and match and have fun with them in whatever way.

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What’s wrong with going into a new expansion going “We think classes as they are now are good, we’ve fixed what we think is problematic and we’re working on fixing the last of the dead talents” and not adding any new talents or gimmicks?

I’d much rather have random abilities I will lose in 2 years than bolster my characters armor and equipment, this is an rpg, it’s supposed to have convoluted max level systems that disappear

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I miss being able to throw on a tabard and do tons of dungeons to get shoulder enchants from Therazane.

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I’m still not understanding the hate for Covenants. We get to align ourselves with a cool faction, get some new abilities and new cosmetics. What’s the problem?

In BC we had Aldor/Scryer and everyone I played with seemed to really like that. Genuine question here

Christ, this tired old BS again. THAT’S THEIR PROBLEM. Stop catering this game to the lowest common denominator. If they can’t figure it out that’s what lower difficulties like Heroic Dungeons and LFR are for.

I just think gems should be inherently in some gear and not a proc chance or something you grind for.

JC (for gems) was essentially garbage in BFA. Not sure why it would do much better in SL. There are far more gems than sockets to go around.

The only way I see it going better is due to the convoluted stat diminishing returns they are adding. Then you might have to juggle your gems depending on what sims best. That is still a big IFF.

You don’t want gear anymore? Even a simple green with stats on it is borrowed power. Anything that aren’t natural baseline stats for your character is borrowed power.

Stop using fotm words when you don’t even know what it means.

I do agree that these extra systems need to go.

Azerite
Essences
Corruptions
Covenant abilities

I want justice and valor badge type system back so I can target gear.

Basically look at wrath and mop and bring all of that back. I’ve had enough of this over convoluted RNG gearing crap.

What was the name of the system that allowed you to reassign a tertiary stat to something else but at like 40% of the stat? I want that back as well.

What’s wrong with borrowed power? It’s been fun since vanilla when it’s implemented well.