Return Crusader’s Reprieve to Paladins, they are a 20-yard Class, not a melee Class

Classes Paladin
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(I don’t know if General Chat will care about this, so I’m posting this here in the Paladin Forums as well.)

In the latest Alpha-Build Blizzard has removed Crusader’s Reprieve from every Paladin Spec (the Talent that increased Rebuke and Crusader Strike range by 3 yards).

This is a terrible and short-sighted change.

So now instead of all Paladin offensive abilities having consistent 20 yard range, Paladins now have numerous abilities that have different ranges again.

Judgment has 30 yard range (and honestly I’d rather see it nerfed to 20 yards and Crusader’s Reprieve returned, THAT would make a lot more sense IMO).

Avenger’s Shield, Holy Shock (offensive), and Blade of Justice have 20 yard range.

And before this change Crusaders Strike and Auto Attacks had ~12-15 yard range.

So before this change all Paladin attacks had consistent range and the Class functioned smoothly.

But now ONLY Crusader Strike/Auto Attacks and Rebuke will be melee range (which also makes Rebuke feel horrible to use by the way).

The ONLY Paladin ability that requires melee range will now be their Crusader Strike/Auto Attack (and Divine Storm, but AOE was already it’s own thing and was a separate playstyle from Single Target).

Every single other Paladin ability can still be used from ~20 yards away, and that is a great thing because it enables Paladins to actually play like Paladins instead of yellow-Warriors.

Blizzard is just making changes to make changes, without putting an ounce of thought into WHY they’re making these changes.

The entire point of Paladin being able to attack from 20 yards is because Paladin is a Support Off-Healing Class like Evoker.

Having 20 yards on all offensive abilities allows Paladins to make full use of their support abilities without being heavily punished for being slightly out of range of the Mobs.

Having medium range allows even a Ret or Prot Paladin to spend a significant amount of mental-bandwidth on staring at their Raid-Frames, which is required of the Player if they want to off-heal or support effectively; and it allows Holy Paladins to attack while remaining at a safer range.

It also helps to balance out Paladin’s severe lack of mobility, it allows them to save their very-limited mobility for heavy movement events, since there isn’t as much rush to get back into melee range.

For some Classes it made sense to reduce their melee range. Many of the Classes that had a Talent to increase their melee range otherwise only had melee range on all of their abilities.

But Paladin is NOT a melee class, Paladin is a 20 yard range Support Class like Evoker, and they’ve been that way for many years now.

This change will only make Paladins more clunky, without actually changing anything about how far away they attack the Mobs from.

Now instead of being able to stand just outside of dangerous AOEs while still being able to attack and off-heal, Paladins will be forced to weave in and out of melee range to make sure all of their attacks land.

This is a terrible change, and would be like making Evoker’s Disintegrate and Interrupt into melee range attacks.

Blizzard doesn’t seem to understand how their own Classes actually function, it seems like they are just reading “Increases Auto Attack range by 3 yards” and swinging their nerfbat like a blindfolded kid trying to hit the Pinata.

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HUH?

What game are you playing?

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Yea fair point, I made a technical error while passionately writing.

I corrected the post to the more accurate 12-15 yard range.

But the point is that all of Paladin’s abilities FELT like they had the same range, and that Paladins were not limited to only melee range.

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Crusader’s Reprieve was only a 3 yd increase, pretty sure that been baked in melee range now.

Based on blue post : We are removing increased melee range talents across the game, such as Astral Influence and Acrobatic Strikes. Default melee range has increased since these talents were originally created, so they now allow specs to attack from well outside where it appears they should be able to. They make the melee experience inconsistent across classes in a way we’re not happy with, so we’re removing them.

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No, thats still not right. Melee and Crusader strike range was 8yds with Crusader’s Reprieve, Avenger’s Shield is 30yds and Holy Shock is 40yds.

We never had “consistent” range as we still need to be in melee range (whether that is 5yds or 8yds) for our kit to function properly. CSAA/Templar Strikes is a bulk of our Holy Power generation and we need to be auto attacking to proc BoJ resets.

The only thing our extended range on our spenders/BoJ/Judge/Hammer of Wrath do for us is to allow us some flexibility when ducking in and out of melee range to dodge mechanics and to finish off targets at range.

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I’m not following, are we back to the standard (5 yard?) on CSS + rebuke, or did they make standard melee 8 baseline for all specs?

Current standard melee range (5 yard) is terrible due to their poor designs in hitboxes, making 8 baseline for every melee and removing the long-arm talents would be fine, if that’s what they are doing

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This is a weird post. Paladin’s is not traditionally a 20 yard class. The first mid-range class is evokers.

Paladins had traditionally had “some” range spells in our kit for offense (judgement and our execute, HoW, with excorsism rarely used) but beyond that, most of our combat was generally in melee.

Legion introduced us to 12 yard range spells sure, but that is still within the melee threshold anyways.

DF introduced ret to a 20 yard rotation which DOES needs to be fixed. But crusader’s reprive being removed or staying had no baring on this at all since it just made our auto attack and CS 8 yard range.

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I read it that melee will now be five yards for all classes- including paladins.

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I see. I get that they want to line up melee-swinging animations with the mobs you hit, but gameplay wise I’m just not a fan of it. Thank you for answering.

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The devs just want it to be consistent for encounter design.

How do you design melee damage areas when melee have different ranges? If you design it to threaten the ones with longer range, then you have squashed the ones with shorter range. If you design it to threaten the ones with shorter range, then you haven’t threatened the ones with longer range.

Consistency is important here.

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They should put it at 8yd for everyone instead.
The inconsistencies are on their end, the hit boxes are all over the place.

Making it 8yd would be a much more enjoyable experience for everyone.

Honestly the more insulting change in all this is moving “Touch of Light” to where CR was but not do anything to even balance/buff the atrocious proc both in occurrence and in amplitude.

How the hell is DH still not working with incandescence…

On the flip side, that point is now open to take something else in the class tree.

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Definitely an option that I would not oppose.

Mmhm. Its the best when you have a pack of various sized mobs that all have a different sized hitbox- especially on a really big pull when the mobs start to horseshoe around the tank and so their cleaves and cones are going every direction and there is nowhere to stand. Good times.

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Nah keep judgement and hammer of wrath range, make everything else melee. Ret is way too ranged right now feel so weird auto attacking from far. Bring back long arm of the law.

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Giving the slowest class in the game more range issues, Nice Blizz

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I think it made more sense for Ret than it did for every rogue spec to have it. Why can’t just a few melee specs like Outlaw, Survival, and Ret have this unique utility?

Rebuke in particular I think should not only keep its range, but actually be increased a couple yds to match HoJ. It makes more sense than Disrupt and Skull Bash, and an equal amount as Mind Freeze. I also wouldn’t say no to a PvP talent that further increases HoJ and Rebuke to 15 yds. Ret needs more compelling PvP talents so that we don’t get stuck using Luminescence in 2’s.

edit:
I have a suggestion. Replace Punishment, the follow-up talent to Rebuke that I don’t think anyone uses, with a talent that increases the range of Rebuke to 10 yds and HoJ to 15 yds. It could even be a talent node choice between Punishment and this if we wanna keep the former around and buff it a bit.

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Old longarm of the law plzzz. Feels so good in cata classic.

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if they removed all auto attack extensions from every class. so it doesnt matter lol

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Templars Verdict being ranged was a huge mistake.

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seconded.

Though I much prefer wings of liberty.

final verdict is ranged. not templars.

The mistake was making it and BoJ 20 yard range and making FV non-optional.

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Same thing, It being ranged is just so busted in pvp.