Retune Molten Core, Onyxia and BWL

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
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I understand why Blizzard is opting for a single itemization, it makes their lives easier and people don’t need to consult a spreadsheet whenever collecting a drop or quest reward. For crafting and leveling this also makes sense and provides a better power level parity between classes during this time. However this decision, coupled with the choice to have 16 raid debuff slots from the start, makes the entry level raids easier. Substantially easier.

Now I also understand that Molten Core is the entry level raid. It shouldn’t have bleeding edge difficulty. And there will still be a learning curve for people who aren’t used to the trash packs or the fights, and that raids will still wipe during progression. But the fact of the matter is that Molten Core - and Onyxia - will be the sole raid content during both phase 1 and phase 2. Now we have no idea just how long these phases will last, but it would be to the benefit of the playerbase, and the longevity of the project, if these two raids are not just curbstomped right off the bat.

One thing that Blizzard has shown a knack for with the current retail project is a facility with tuning raids. Therefore I implore you to take your experience and adjust the difficulty of these raids to compensate for the impact of a later itemization and 16 debuff slots.

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Hello There!

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Straps on hardhat

Ok I’m ready for comments.

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That’s an easy answer. No.

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Not really, no.

Hardcore players will curbstomp it regardless.

So what’s your suggestion? Buff the armor/hp/resistance values? All that does is enforce a higher need for “preraid BiS”. Change the fights completely? Well that’s not vanilla then (not that buffing values is).

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You do realize that MC and BWL are going to have several mechanic issues because of the itemization they are using right? While I personally that youtube guy Tips is a well I am not gonna say it. He actually did manage to make two or three solid points in his free content for the day.

Defense around the board is lowered, which means tanks are going to opt for defense gear over more dps oriented gear. Which means a lower TPS which means less over raid damage will be output due to threat limits early on.

Also I personally have seen numerous people on this private servers tanking AQ40 and Naxx40 bosses without a shield on a warrior. I can’t wait for classic this summer when they get absolutely destroyed without a shield. This comment has no purpose it was just on my mind.

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It’s like people don’t even read blue posts.

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No, and I’ll tell you why.

I don’t really care if the people who have been playing Vanilla on private servers for years have an easy time with it.

What people forget is that the fights are mechanically simple, but also unforgiving.

Does it make Classic more fun if a typical guild has to wipe on Onyxia for a month to overtuned Deep Breath? The way it was is plenty because every player hit with conflag at the wrong time in the wrong place is super dead when she breathes. Every player not in the right spot on her body is going to get hit with a tail whip or cleave.

I know everyone thinks they are elite skilled ninjas now, but if they tune the game to be hard for people who have had years of practice it will be too hard for many.

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I always thought it would be hilarious to watch people rage if bosses came with a new mechanic or 2 just to mess with players.

Probably best just leaving things alone though. People will try to argue that a stronger Rag fight is justification for guild banks :confused:

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Well, I’m one random person who is glad you said it. All these people talking about speed naxx clears when they kill bosses in less than a third of the time it took in vanilla confuses me.

Tanking with a 2H is a part of it, but I’m definitely interested in seeing how different Classic will be. I’m open to being wrong, but the reality of the past has be hopeful.

Not to be a broken record, but this is why I wanna see post-naxx content. :open_mouth:

Edit: Part of the reason.

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While I don’t think this is going to happen, it is probably a good idea. The game will still be healthy, but I fear many will get bored with vanilla overall because MC is too easy. The scale of difficulty of every new vanilla tier is exponential. AQ40 and naxx are very difficult.

Flat 20% hp buff for all MC +ONY bosses and trash, and 10% flat buff to bwl bosses and trash would do nicely.

Blizzard may find that this causes more problems than it solves, and might not be a good idea. Up to them really.

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I don’t care about hardcore players. They are the last people on my mind. I’m concerned with the average raid group muddling their way through content. Being stuck on a particular boss for a few weeks is in many ways beneficial if its one of the later bosses as every week crafting materials are collected and crafted, and BoEs and other items drop increasing overall group power. When the group finally breaks through that wall its a fantastic feeling. Providing that experience for players is essential.

That ship has sailed.

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Defense gear has always been a meme. 1/5 imp shield block covers just about every fight till itemization gets change due to all raid bosses having…I wanna say 2.5 attack speed?

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I’m all for re-tuning as everyone knows. But it’s not to make it harder per se. Everything is known. Things will be straight forward for the most part. What re-tuning do is to make everything take more time. Bosses die slower. Raids take longer. Increased time has a huge impact on everything from BiS to guild dynamics. It’s a huge snowball effect.

Want the Vanilla experience? When we just started AQ40, MC was still 2+ hours. It was essentially one raid night. So eventually we dropped MC all together and only did the current and previous raid tier till the end of Vanilla. This whole business of farming Thunderfury while did Naxx and AQ40 didn’t exist. Why? Time. Good luck convincing 40 people to waste 2-3 hours of their time farming for something no one but 1 person needs. Thunderfury didn’t grow on trees for a reason. When Naxx dropped, we were drained and burnt out.

IMO, things need to be re-tuned to increase time - thus maintain a closer authentic experience. It isn’t about being “harder” per se.

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#nochanges.

Theres no need to retune it till we actually see it.

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Let’s say we finally see it and it turns out that the “Classic /Retail translation” with 1.12 numbers made things even worse than private servers. It would be a little too late.

There may not be a need ultimately, it should be raised as a concern, imo.

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Defense gear has never been a meme, defense cap has.

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I honestly can’t see that happening. I’ll put retail gold on the line to say that PS resistance numbers are severely out of whack and as a result that’s going to shock some PS players initially.

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Even if this was a good idea, for every idea you need to ask one question.

  1. Would this cost Blizzard more money than not doing it.

If yes, they aren’t doing it.

Loot trading.
Sharding.
Cloud servers.
No progressive itemization. (items will all be in their 1.12 state from phase 1)
Right click report.

We can’t get them to stop making changes that save money, why would you ever think they’d make a change that would cost them money?

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Shhhhhh blizz… buff the raids… no one will know. pls pls pls… just say that is how it was in vanilla…

Fire resist gear should be required to beat MC/BWL… and Nature Resist gear should be required for AQ 40…
With optimization, a lot of guilds can actually bypass this requirement.

pls stealth buff for the raids to be on equivalent difficulty as first intended… I won’t tell anyone…

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