That didn’t answer my question. What 1.12 changes would cause players to do such a high amount of dps compared to players back in the day? Saying players are more aware of world buffs and consumables points to player knowledge and not the patch.
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The problem, as me, you and Mr Fasciae have had many go arounds on, is that what changes there have been were mostly player buffs, not boss nerfs.
So the “revert” thing doesn’t work any more. You’re now asking them to nerf Classic players from where they are today.
E.g at BWL release and for several months after, flasks didn’t persist through death and Black Lotus was BoP, meaning only nuts used flasks. Could they really get away with rolling it back to that at this point?
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Just curious did they day it would be a museum piece? Because it was never restored to it’s original form to begin with
Stopping cave camping was a good choice? In a PVP game mode? Where you are encouraged to slay the other team?
not replying to you Clik, not sure what happened here.
Vanilla was also alot of this, even the best guilds back in the day are objectively trash compared to the high end guilds we have today.
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I already answered this. Gear itemization/changes. Ill give you an example.
[Patch 1.10.0] (2006-03-28): The Bonereaver’s Edge’s triggered effect has been changed. Instead of lowering your victim’s armor, it will cause you to ignore a portion of your victim’s armor. Its triggering rate was substantially increased as well as the magnitude of the effect. In addition, the item now has 16 stamina.
[Patch 1.7.0] (2005-09-22): The duration of the Bonereaver’s Edge weapon debuff has been lowered, but the frequency of the effect has been raised.
Im not going to sit here and list every single change that happened from BWL to what we ended up with in 1.12. We will be able to get a class trinket thats extremly powerful day one of BWL release - a trinket that didnt come out until AQ was released. Lots of small changes and improvements, class tuning.
Would be nice I have flame sacs to sell!!
Well not revert but retune. Which in itself is an inexact science. But better than what we have.
Raids in vanilla got gradually harder. BWL will be slightly harder than MC. So fourth till naxx.
The biggest mistake blizzard made was not having progressive itemization. This is causing most of the issues with balance. Many tier sets and items were adjusted throughout vanilla and we did not get that with classic. Classic will never be vanilla and people have to understand that blizzard will change things to compensate for that nostalgic feel.
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They absolutely should retune it so that there is a feeling of progression to the raids, it not only adds longevity to the raid but it also makes it a more meaningful experience. Considering there is only one difficulty for these raids they need to retune it if people don’t want AQ within 2-3 months. The game is far too easy right now.
BWL bosses definitely need more armor and resistance because people are doing TBC level of damage in MC already. If we’re stuck with the improved talents and gear and debuff slots from 1.12 then buffing the creatures to absorb that extra damage seems like an ok option, no?
Anyone else remember Vael’s timer? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
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Player understanding counts for more than people think. It’s not just rotations, those were understood pretty well for the most part. Mostly it’s gearing, and a major, major factor is the resist sets.
A lot of players have forgotten just how many guilds required fire resist sets that today we’ve realized are holding us back. Even a tank doesn’t need 250 or 320 FR, though if you have it it helps a lot with Rag and Baron*. 150 will do just fine for Ony, Magmadar, and lava trash, and you don’t even need it outside of that. But have you looked, like really looked at the pieces people would need to get to 250(well, 190 really)? Most of them are kinda garbage, even the tanks give up huge amounts of threat based stats and often other survivability factors to get there. Fire resist gear either gets huge numbers in very expensive pieces like the dark iron set, or comes in small numbers that eat up your entire gear set to reach these numbers. It accounts for massive chunks of DPS, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see a raid deck themselves out in this gear and instantly lose 30 or so % of their DPS and HPS.
*A tank with 300 + FR and healers not asleep at the wheel can actually stay put during Baron’s AOE and expect to survive: makes the fight a lot smoother. And if you can put an extra healer off the tank and onto rag, it can outweigh the tank’s reduced output.
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It is over 13 years old. Go back and play a board game and then ask them to make it harder 
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I have a feeling that to meet those dos requirements some mages are blowing their mana balls because they know the fight will last at most 90 sec.
That same dps to patchwork would take 6:00 to kill him and they’d be long since oom.
But of course, that doesn’t affect warriors or rogues and everybody will have better gear by then anyway soooo yeah.
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No.
Looking at the world firsts, I see that every boss in BWL other than Nefarian was killed within 2 days of release. Though, I think a lot of them were bugged easy.
my bad let me go 15 years back in time and complain about the other faction being able to have premades so it’s fair
The more I think about it, i think it’s a combination of both the fact that things are “gated” and that things were buffed/nerfed. But the fact that raids are “gated” and not “progressed” makes it magnitudes worse.
With raids being gated, players have the time to get BiS and are chomping at the bit once BWL drops. They also know what to expect before hand and all the strats are shared/known. Progression was the opposite of that to some degree.
You mention FR, etc. But would say a +100 spell power difference = double or triple or (however many it actually is) the dps? There’s other things going on there. Remember we’re not talking about people doing a 20% more or less. Were talking like double the amount or more.
I took a good long look for the first time in a while at some of the patch notes from Blizzard regarding changes to spell power and stuff, and there were a lot of sketchy vague things going on about making/fixing +spell power and healing to be more effective.
Now a good argument might be that people coordinate world buffs and flask up - even when they don’t need to. Back then we did not - to a large degree world buff wise. Also, if you progression raided in MC, flasking was kinda questionable as it didn’t persist through death. We died in MC - a lot. But then the question is … how much would current flasks + Ony buff add on to dps? And does it add up?