At level 80 on S1 launch day with a full set of enchanted honor gear, I could not be alive more than 2 seconds in combat for the most part. Defensives removed early or wildly ineffective as usual. Divine Protection being a 10% reduction in damage taken does about nothing, Shield of Vengeance pops about as fast as the GCD to cast it. Plate armor feels like it is made of wet paper right now.
The choice to maintain no MS, knockback, disarm, or physical stun on a spec with one dispelable stun, an inturupted repentance that breaks on damage and blinding light removing enemies dots and breaking on damage, no invisibility, no instant mobility for a spec with no effective damage, healing, or defensives is just wild.
So why should anyone play Ret while muti-glad/rank 1 Rets are posting videos to YouTube discussing why Retribution is completely unplayable for even the best Retribution players in the world.
If Ret is going to stay useless ok, I can and do play something else. I just dont know if there is a reason to keep it in the game as I dont believe it benefits anyone to log on as Ret.
MOST talents(abilities and passives including pvp talents) are specifically pvp nerfed. PVE Rets are doing average and dont seem to know how extreme the pvp nerfs are on Ret.
The dispell for PVP Retribution had seemed to have a built in feature that prioritized removing the lowest priority magical effects and it was still removed from the game, so further nerfs seems like a willfull “execution sentence” on Rets viability.
9 Likes
Ret was always my safe bet in bgs it was a fun class with half decent survivability and high single target burst making it a fun bg hero class. I dont feel like it is anymore single target def needs a boost. I still do a ton of damage in bg but thats all padded aoe from being herald. And now thats getting nerfed with no buffs to templar single target or our survivability it just seems better to play a fury. They actually have pressure and i can feel it every time i hope in between the two.
6 Likes
The effectiveness of pvp specific tools, survivability and damage of Ret is just so bad compared to others. As MM I have 11 tools to disrupt enemy movement, some of those do other effects like adding healing done decreasing debuffs and silences. As Ret I have one stun that is useful when it isnt dispelled.
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Lvling a mm hunter now though not doing it for the utility (i know they have alot and god buffed survivability in tww) but just to be a mage counter since frosts are everywhere
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Final Verdict legit needs a straight up 70% buff for ret to be even remotely viable.
4 Likes
I was thinking 300%, so it would be 2/5s of a HoL.
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I’d wait till patch 11.0.5 before we form a full opinion.
Nah, I’ve experienced what Ret had now, so I have opinions now. I’ve also read the proposed changes. Only one addresses a class design flaw with allowing DS to ignore Forbearance. Edit* 2 address class flaws, as Forbearance can be reduced to 20 seconds with a talent in 11.5 as of now.
I understand I cant formulate an informed opinion on content I cant test. Who know what they could change next week or next year.
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I say this, because the class tree is where we we may bring something other then just damage. And with the class changes, some things in the ret tree may change along with it (example, avaneging wrath will no longer be in the class tree, as such the talents in the ret tree will have to change to reflect that)
Things are not set in stone on what we see atm. But it appears we will bring allot of passive utility in the class tree, (such as CD reduction for other player’s movement skills, healing from blessing etc.)
Is there a reason you have specifically ignored Ret’s team defensive utility capabilities? Ret/warr has been the most popular comp for the past two expansions and has been incredibly strong. It will likely remain incredibly strong.
What’s incredibly strong is all the nerfs to abilities and passive talents, including pvp talents nerfed by 50% to 80%. Ok, I can cast Sac, but Ret is the easiest kill target, I can BoP and have it removed early, I can BoSpellwarding and be feared, teliported, knocked back with a spell, stunned by magical stuns like HoJ, and BoP and DS shield can be removed in 2 seconds if a MELEE inturupt is not used by me for a dispell or a stun is not avaliable for Shattering throw.
All that fragility, removable utility, and smidge of off healing just makes groups want to dog pile on a Ret.
While playing MM I have a Tranquilizing shot loaded and locked just waiting for a paladin to BoP someone and my mage teammates would love to see a BoF cast to steal.
You dont want a solution. It seems like it would be pretty pointless arguing with you. Ret is one of the most utility stacked specs in pvp. Just reroll. No one here does tuning nob balance nor can they give you the answer you want.
Apart from sac, sanc and spellward, everything else gets purged in a sec at top rated 2.4K + because people know how to play their class. And spellward is not very good with this disc priest meta because it gets mass dispelled without any kicks available to kick it because you use it against casters (magic immune) which you have to kick casters to stop random one shots and can’t save kick for mass dispell. So yes they do have 2 great tools but they are useless when the cross cc is so easy to do this expansion.
3 Likes
Balances to utility, or buffs to survivability and damage due to flawed ineffective utility is hard, but it will be nice when it is implemented. I know deep down someone at Blizzard agrees with some of what I’m saying because in 11.5 paladins will be able to Divine Shield while having Forbearance, it is a start.
Tranquilizing shot cannot be kicked and MM is WAY out of my HoJ range.
2 Likes
When i saw all the changes for TWW, considerably increasing defensives and overall survivability of most classes while at the same time nerfing Rets defensives, it would be a problem.
It is so strange seeing Hunters/wars/mages topping the healing charts with mostly passive selfhealing while doing their rotation
5 Likes
I always get a chuckle when someone says wElL asTcuAlly, rEt is oP bEcAuSE…(insert 70% less useful ability than the other spec with the better version)…
Rets damage is ok in PVE, it has everything it can do flawed, poorly tuned, or pvp nerfed in pvp. Based on the totality of its kit(design and tuning) compared to other specs it is handicapped.
If Ret was durable and wasnt most players favorite kill target, folks would be closer to correct if they said Ret was strong.
Being squishy, having a melee range inturupt and melee range HoL, doing poor ST damgage AND lacking instant mobility, disarm, a good slow, MS, and self healing thats worth a damn compared to the Hunters?!? Ret wont reach average effectiveness in pvp without some large changes.
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Rets problems currently are purely numbers based with damage. Its utility isnt flawed in the slightest because some classes have specific counters. This is such a cooked circle jerk of a conversation.
Yeah, and when people use arena comps as example to justify not buffing certain class/spec, like Ret/War.
So we don’t need buffs in pvp because it seens like War is part of Ret toolkit now.
Also no1 cares about arena anyway, wow is shifting focus to group pvp content like blitz.
2 Likes
Right, that would be like saying, Hunter need MS because, but Ret cant have it because Warrior exists, or, Ret doesnt need 30% wall like Hunters get with a built in heal if Dark Ranger, 10% is good enough for Ret because healers is a roll that exists. Ret doesnt need SoV to last more than 2 seconds because a friendly neighborhood Warrior can AoE peel for him with a fear…like I dont have a Warrior in my pocket in Solo Bgs, especially now that Fury was Nerfed. Before someone suggests I use Blinding Light…I will remind you Rets get cussed at if they use it becuase it removed DoTs.
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From my limited testing, I agree that the real issue is Ret damage is undertuned (in PvP) while a few specs are wildly overtuned. But 20% DP would be nice as well.