Something I wish Blizzard would have done with regard to this fight is remove the wall surrounding the platform where you fight Prince. This would have made players think about what they were doing rather than just cheese it by having the tank stand in one place the whole time.
I imagine the fight was actually intended that way and Blizzard just didn’t account for the fact that the tank can just hold his back to a wall and not be knocked around by the Shadow Nova.
Think of how much harder and dynamic the fight would be if everyone was force to mind the edge without the wall surrounding it. The tank and other melee would have to be more aware of where they stood while everyone would have to make an even greater effort to avoid the randomized infernal placement.
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Tanking a knockbacking boss in a corner is cheesing?
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Like I said, I think the knockback was supposed to force your raid to reposition themselves while avoiding the infernals. As it stands, the knockback really doesn’t do much to a tank with his back to the wall. The melee are really the only ones affected by it.
Plus being able to LoS the knockback by hiding in some of the corners is another way to cheese the fight. Would be far more difficult if you were forced to think about how to distance yourself while enfeebled all while avoiding infernals.
Play ff14, lots of fights with kb instakills (that you can also counter with kb immunities and gapclosers)
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There’s already a mechanic for this that my guild had to account for last night: Infernals.
Had one land in the sweet spot between the boss and the ranged with overlap on the tank and the melee positions. Had to reposition him at around 60%.
Prince fight is fine. You can’t force massive amounts of movement on a fight that REQUIRES the tank stay topped off or get bodied.
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Given you’re able to tank him in one place for pretty much the entire fight, whether or not you deal with infernals at all is left completely up to chance.
Yup, and was just thinking how much more difficult and worthwhile the fight would be if players were forced to do this for every fight.
Prince fight is also easy. Easy if the infernals are generous.
And since you already admitted that in that particular instance you had to reposition him anyway, then clearly you were able to do the fight despite being forced to move around.
Blizz isn’t changing t4 meme content soz
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Yes this is Kara… Not BT. We don’t need these fights to be tuned so dramatically.
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Repositioning once, yes.
CONSTANTLY repositioning during a fight where the tank damage continually ramps up? No. Especially with the randomness of internals, no.
Prince is being killed as he’s intended to be, with his mechanics forcing people to take positioning in mind from start to finish and adjustments being made to accommodate bad infernal rng.
If EVERY infernal fell in a predictable, predetermined location what you’re saying could be conceivable, but they don’t.
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Designing a fight around 100% RNG is terrible design. They may aswell just have a rng raid wipe at that point. Before the door strat was a thing it involved substantially more movement, ALl it did was drag out the fight and make it more prone to wipes, The difficulty in the fight should be dealing with the massive ramp up of damage in p2 and the splitting of damage in P3, the fight does that with being able to tank him in a corner.
I’m with you on the spirit of the thing, but stop to think about what Karazan is.
It’s basically Scholomance or Stratholm before their nerfs in 1.3. That’s how they play it’s how they’re tuned. It’s meant to be fun and a way to gear your character for the actual raids. In other words it’s just a dungeon.
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The Infernals are already random anyway. The design isn’t any more or less RNG than it already would be. Only difference is the tank can’t rely on a wall at his back.
That’s what tbc needs, more anti melee mechanics
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So many times that I’ve done that fight it’s like “The infernal wasn’t supposed to spawn there, we have the worst luck”. On both my horde and alliance playing with different raid groups. It’s like at least 80% of the time an infernal or 2 spawns in a bad spot and we have to reposition.
Anyway I don’t think it’s a huge deal, Karazhan is an intro raid more like a dungeon.
There are tons of fights with knock back mechanics. High king is one of them. Tanking them on a wall isnt cheese, that’s what you’re suppose to do. If you are a tank and get knocked back away from your healers you would wipe.
The only cheese in that spot is the crevice there for melee to hide behind. Even with that nerfed melee would just have to run away and then run back in. It really doesn’t make it that much harder.
Seriously? Who cares. Besides… It’ll be nerfed soon, anyway.
This is just how a lot of mechanics will continue to be: either you do it right and avoid the mechanic’s problems entirely or you don’t and you ping-pong everywhere and make life needlessly hard on yourself.
Simple tricks like these are why some of the more truly casual crews back in the day super struggled with these fights because they basically insisted on trying to do the fight on hardmode and couldn’t fathom why people found the fight so easy.
Same is true of things like Netherspite, where you can have Warriors/Feral Druids/Rogues just eat the Green Beam nonstop, no penalties, no true downsides. A whole mechanic that APPEARS to want you to juggle your healer in and out that you can just straight up ignore.
We really don’t start to see raid-wide individual responsibility stuff for awhile
My frustration is the game is in an “already solved” state. If Blizzard had been a bit more creative, I don’t think they would have stopped at a “no longer nerfed” state of raids.
I really wish they’d have looked back and given us the old content, but tweaked it here and there to make it that much more difficult so that people walking in wouldn’t be able to complete it again in a “solved” state.
Some folks have been asking for a Classic+ along these lines. Reworking old content for old players who want more difficulty and less face-roll.
Actually, Prince was always intended to be handled the way he is. That’s why blizzard put the convenient notch in the wall for enfeebled melees to hide in.
Anyways… this is a classic game. It should be exactly the same experience as it was back in the days, so if it’s not a bug, then don’t fix it.
Most of the players who have played this game at its original release don’t want it changed and remutailated.
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