Can this be a talent for ret?
Its been somewhat the highlights of my 8.3 experience since they buffed the proc rate.
Just checked my maut kill and my wings uptime was 54%.
It’s also really good, even helping us in m+ and arenas.
Having access to our damage more often (1.5min instead of 2m )is really great since we do no damage without wings anyway. And the procs are really powerful.
Remove Seraphim and put it in its place. Having another stat buffs to keep up in the rotation would feel bad since our generation of holy power is somewhat poorly generated because of long cooldown on our generators.
It has no place its the talent tree or baseline to be honest.
PS: Change Zeal or Righteous Verdict for Final Verdict.
4 Likes
I’d rather have it replace Inquisition or Sanctified Wrath. Let it compete with Crusade instead of Divine Purpose.
That said, I absolutely agree that Vision of Perfection should stay in some form or another. Even without the CD reduction, random wings procs are so damn fun.
5 Likes
It’s better to have synergy throughout our talents than all of them competing against each other. Thats why putting it against crusade would remove the already thin layer of depth and synergy ret spells and talents have to offer.
Right, but talent rows generally have themes. Vision would fit a lot better on the level 50 wings row than on the level 40 HP row (where I agree that Seraphim also feels weirdly out of place.)
I agree, ret without vision feels slow.
2 Likes
Hm. What about a compromise in a talent similar to Demonic? Where using Wake of Ashes gives 7 seconds of wings, or something.
3 Likes
Yeah that’d be great actually. Works for sure and easier to build a burst window around than a proc, even if the proc itself is fun and dynamic.
I’d definitely like it in a row competing against Crusade. I’d take it every time.
Considering Execution Sentence has some range on its attack(20yards). It would only be fair the other two talents do as well. So for instance Righteous Verdict could add an additional 5yard range to Templar’s Verdict(essentially becoming Final Verdict). Zeal could be made so that when Judging a target the next 3 melee attacks do holy damge and have additional range.
Make Retribution Aura give everyone Wings! Yes!!! Also we need Long arm of the Law.
That’s actually a better idea yes. We would have more control over our burst instead of waiting on rng procs.
It would lead to less feel bad moments when it doesnt proc for a while and it’s better as an activated effects since you have full control over when you want it.
I’m with this one
Maybe add it to ret aura to make that aura more useful?
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I would be perfectly happy with this given the current iteration of ret although I still hate how bursty they are
Agree in spirit about it becoming a talent, absolutely disagree about it taking the place of either Inquisition or Sanctified Wrath.
I think it should be worked into how Retribution Aura works (rather than just giving Paladins the old Retribution passive).
As an alternative, it could be a talent, say “Vengeance Aura” (replacing the current PvP version), that replaces our own Retribution Aura…and it’s basically an aura form of Vision of Perfection. Our own spells and abilities have a relatively low chance of activating it for a bit, but also any kind of substantial spike damage received by allies has a chance of activating it. (not them dying, btw, I hate that interaction, just they take a devastating hit and so we hit back harder)
Agreed, replace seraphim with it
Not Inquisition though, I like having a slicendice to keep up
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Really? Why?
Personally I think maintenance buffs are awful. They’re sometimes decent at being skill checks (not Inquisition though) but they’re terrible at being fun. I want a buff that makes me feel like a god when it’s active, not one that makes me feel like crap when it isn’t.
3 Likes
I agree, I’ve never enjoyed maintenance buffs. Never cared for inquisition one way or the other, and still refuse to use it. Maybe it’s because it cost holy power? I dunno… I feel like if when used, it would proc a burst of DMG, then maybe it wouldn’t feel soo bad to lose the holy power to gain the buff. I dunno.
Yeah this right here is the defining difference between Inquisition and Seraphim (or something like it). You either bother to keep Inquisition up or you have a slowass rotation because you have to go crazy with haste for most of the expansion. There’s no skill in it whatsoever, no effort or decision. You just feel slow without it until later when you can just take Crusade and blow things up instead.
Seraphim though, tuning dependant, feels like an actual on-demand burst window. You can line up CDs with it, use it as its own reasonable CD when you have procs/another non-wings CD up/Execution phase/add spawn/whatever. That’s skilled and rewarding, assuming the CD is actually strong and not just a “pop this on CD every time or hate your life” CD. Even that is still given to more skilled play than a maintenance buff that provides moderate quality of life improvements that you mainly take because the HP system pretty much forces you to do it when you have crap gear and avoid entirely when you have good gear. You can screw up Seraphim if you suddenly have to target swap, blow it and then wings comes off CD, boss goes invulernable, trash dies etc whatever misplay you can imagine.
Again, I say this as someone that doesn’t even particularly like Seraphim as a talent over Divine Purpose but I don’t deny it’s wayyyyyy more involved and interesting a talent than Inqusition that rewards skilled play assuming it is powerful enough to manage. Inquisition is something you take because you feel you need it (and you do) rather than you think it’s cool or fun to use.
Maintenance buffs are only good if they are off the GCD, if they aren’t they are just annoying and especially feel bad in the beginning of a fight. The GCD changes just have everything feeling worse and honestly that should be the #1 change of SL for all classes, revert this garbage.
2 Likes
I want wings to have the same cooldowns as trinkets. It feels better when your major cooldowns and trinket cooldowns line up. I would like to see something like wings duration is increased by 1 second for every holy power you spend.
1 Like