Since we are stuck with the same bad tier set at least do some tunning to make it better in pvp. Right now noone is even using the 4 pieces cause how bad it is. Expurgations dots need to be higher and fv echo too, is only doing 13k, less than exp dots XD. cmom
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Yeah that’s not happening. Should it? Absolutely! But no way that’s what they do.
Sad very sad, they don´t care about pvp.
Agreed. Very off-putting.
Just don’t bother with the tier set and stack mast/vers.
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I mean, the only thing they need is to undo the PVP modifier on it.
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ya but mastery is also bad since the nerfs. That a thing that need be revert.
It’s still the best stat we can stack besides vers. And the tier set is useless for pvp’ers, so why not? 
Exactly! I’m sure somebody at blizzards development team said the exact same thing, too. Because that’s totally what happened. If blizzards offices don’t smell oddly like a certain herbal fragrance I’m going to have more questions to these bad ideas than I already do. Because they have no business implementing these things sober.
I mean, I totally get how simple it would be. Just like a ton of other totally logical things that should happen to ret paladins in pvp. Like LoH not causing forbearance. Or divine stead not needing to also be casted with HoF to break snares and be a gap closer and also not needing to spec for 2 charges of it. But alas, I am merely but a player and they don’t really listen.
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I think they did for the rework, for the area they could affect anyway.
Things like the talent cost of steed or the mechanical implication of LoH/forbearance weren’t in their purview.
They weren’t mandated to rework the class tree or the class mechanics.
I think this is one of the few weakness of the model they went with for talent trees.
Some of the issues specs can have quite often stem from the class tree.
Since it is shared however, you can’t just willy-nilly changed stuff in there to fit changes for the specific spec because you might break something for a different spec.
This seems to be especially an issue for multirole classes.
Point in case, they ended up making the class tree of Paladin different depending on your role to try and get around that.
Nobody said they were but they understood that the it was one of the least represented classes in mythic+ and that was a numbers thing, not a player request thing.
But they do this a lot and the game is 20+ years old. This should be very simple but they somehow flub it.
And to fix that they went and did what plenty of people were telling them to do for 6-7 years prior, which show they were listening, just not acting on it.
I don’t understand how the game age has anything to do with the weaknesses of the current system they decided to use.
Doesn’t matter what they did in the past 20 years, this is what they have to work with for the foreseeable future.
The fact is, if you want to rework a spec but the problems stem from the class tree, you can’t easily fix it without affecting the other specs you might NOT want to touch.
Some of Ret problem stemmed from there and they had to use work around that defeats the purpose of having a class tree, which is bad for other reasons.
Rets has more issues in desing that any other classes have. Simples things like bubble and freedom having a global cd, i think that rets is one of the few classes that have gcd in almost every spell, that simple change would make rets feels a lot better. Other problem that have is bubble and bop having 4 and 5 min cd, in the actual wow average arena time in more and less 3 min and top 5min, u have only one chance or max 2 times that u can use one of these spells, compare that with shadow Priest dispertion, or rogues cloak of shadow, how many time thy can use his biggest deffensives in one arena. Ret was good despite of that cause it had a big burst to compensate all of that issues but right now we don´t have. Rets have one the lowest burts in game, but they simple don´t care.
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Not exactly. Again, the return is more of what they saw and not on what they heard. Had they listened they’d have done it way before they did. When a community gives up on a spec almost entirely you don’t have to hear anybody.
Because they time and time again barely acknowledge the lack of balance between the classes in an effective manner. Which is why DH still hits like a truck in PVP, hunters dominate BGs with a vengeance, prot paladins have sub par representation in raids and mythic+ due to many problems commonly expressed, ret paladins have abysmal survivability compared to other melee classes in PVP and PVE, and healer classes are under represented in almost every way with a massive skill gap between average and top players that is almost impossible to cover if you have any sort of life outside of the game which commonly leads to longer wait/que times in any sort of LFR system designed to make that less of thing than it was 10+ years ago.
Those issues have been screamed in the community time and time again and very little if anything at all has been done to cover it.
Look, I understand what you’re saying about the skill tree but that truthfully it is totally irrelevant if the end result is not a happier player base. The simple fact is that the community gives feedback constantly on classes they play that falls on deaf ears. This lines up again that they are not listening to the people who pay to play their games and if they are it’s nowhere near as much as it should because it’s barely noticable.
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That has nothing to do with the rework.
They have their own philosophy about PVP balance and will tune classes according to it, the only thing a rework does about this is which ability they are gonna impact with modifier to place it back where they want it.
They could have literally made all the changes you’d want to see for Ret and still make it bad in PVP with a simple touch of a slider.
No, that’s not how “listening” works.
Anyone can “listen” to something, it doesn’t bind them to do what they heard the moment they heard it.
They can deliberately choose to not do anything with the feedback after they’ve listen to it.
The purposeful changes they made were largely all things mentioned on the forums and other media constantly.
For example
- Steed off GCD
- Giving us access to Divine Protection
- Having Unbound Freedom “baseline-ish”/ for the base game
So yes, they were listening just not acting upon it.
When did the community “gave up” on Ret?
It is consistently one of the more popular spec regardless of how it does and it has been true for years even after they pruned/changed it in Legion.
Make no mistake, they ignore it but they hear it.
Which is worse? You tell me.
They only listen to $$$
SL took a $$$ hit and it shook them to react.
DF didn’t spike but has retained players whilst they “started” to act upon community feedback.
I think we’ll both agree they should keep improving on that front if they want to put WoW back on the upward trend.
If that’s their philosophy then it’s outright wrong. There’s not much more to say in that regard.
As a parent I am fully aware of how that works. However, my kids don’t pay me a monthly subscription. Also when a business does that it comes off as “We heard you and we don’t care” which in turn starts the question: Why pay to be here then?
The rework that caused the spike in Ret representation in DF was due to the low numbers in SL. Let’s both agree an under represented class on an expansion with player lows in a pandemic with most people in their homes not play is bad. Real bad. They had to do something.
Not listening and ignoring it are the same thing. They’re both terrible.
If they want jobs they will. Sometimes I don’t think they care.
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If you thought they didn’t care about feedback for the game in general, you can bet your a** they don’t have much of thought for specific feedback for a subsection of the game which they pretty much stopped working on.
It’s sad for PVP players but if I were one of them, I’d move pass WoW for a PVP experience, it’s simply not well supported or done at all.
Bingo.
That’s the catalyst for them to start taking feedback seriously, when people stop paying.
Which they did in SL.
The popularity numbers for Ret are consistent since legion, it only slightly dipped in SL and even then it was still reasonably being played.
What prompted them to look at it more specifically (outside of a general vague commitment to act on feedback) was the high number of death it had across content.
And I presume fight like Razageth only contributed to those number since it was virtually impossible for Ret to survive the push back without outside help.
What are you talking about? Haste is insane for ret
Have you guys seen our next teir set model… holy crap it’s an L.
We have abysmal survival in PvE?
Is this a joke? I’m always the last alive, between bubble/bop/LoH/Wall/SoV and WoG crits for like 80% of my health I can solo and survive anything PvE throws at me.