hi all - i know ret is meant to be a bit clunky and slow. at max level… at what haste level would the rotation start to feel a bit less… sucky? lol.
15% and youl be happy
ahh thanks… right now while leveling with 17% haste I still see quite alot of downtime. would this change at max level?
It’s worse at 120. Everything will scale as soon as you level cap and you will feel weaker at 120 than your current level. What little haste you have now will drop each time you level.
If you have any toons at 120 mail the Pally some Benthic gear.
thanks but once i get back to 17% ish haste… would it feel okay with azerite and inquisition?
I’m by no means good but even with high haste like 17-19% and even with inquisition I have never found it to be smooth, I’ve always found there to be some downtime waiting for a cooldown when I have to auto attack.
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Ret is a spec that will always have the occasional free GCD because we don’t have a spammable filler. If you absolutely hate downtime, minimise it by;
- Stack as much haste as you can
- Take the more active DPS talents; avoid Hammer of Wrath and Crusade
- Take Selfless Healer (ironically it’s the selfish option on that row…)
- Take 1 x Empyrean Power trait
- Use Concentrated Flame major essence and Lucid Dreams minor
Note that this isn’t necessarily the highest DPS, but it will do a good job of filling your GCDs.
The only time Ret feels sluggish to me is if I’m running Hammer + Crusade. The talents are close enough that even if Hammer + Crusade sims higher it’s only by a small amount, so I just don’t play that spec anymore.
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Kashadin provides the best feedback currently, and I agree 99% with what was said.
The little I disagree on is not worth noting as it’s purely subjective as it’s how I “feel.”
There’s no soft/hard cap or break points for haste this expansion, so at the very least look to go around the 15-20% mark for haste while using Inquisition. Yes, Crusade sucks for BfA.
At the very least, look to take two… maybe three Light’s Decree traits with one Empyrean power trait from Azerite Gear.
As you’re raising your Heart of Azeroth, and unlocking your essences, you’ll ultimately want to have Visions of Perfection as your major essence until you get rank three in Condensed Life-Force, then you can have Visions as your minor, along with Crucible of Flame as your second minor when you unlock the level 65 second minor slot for the neck.
On top of farming for haste stat gear, you are going to want to get the haste traits on your azerite gear. Elemental whirl (random stat buff), that blood buff that refreshes when you kill something, the holy haste buff that stacks, and the Heart of Azeroth has a subtrait that gives stacking haste for every ability you use i think. There are a lot of external haste buffers that can supplement your rotation, as irritating as that is.
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i have had up to 20% haste and rotation still feels bad.
Have you tried Inquisition or DP? Inquisition gives you a 7% damage and haste increase as AW already provides a 20% damage and crit buff. All Crusade does is replaces AW, and gives you a damage and haste buff. You’re losing that much needed increase AW provides as the devs buffed it this expansion by going with Crusade.
The remaining haste can come from Azerite Gear via Overwhelming Power and Lifespeed.
Just remember… crit > haste > vers = mastery
thanks for the input. I’m not sure why ret feels so sluggish… I think it maybe the nature of the animations. I’m not sure… Arms also has slower apm but feels really smooth. hopefully with 20 haste and the traits mentioned I can get it to a somewhat enjoyable level.
Having atleast 1 empyrean power will give you free divine storm procs as well…helps smooth things a little. Also, if taking selfless healer, or even when not. Throw out a flash of light or freedom or something.
Usually when I play my paladin when I’m “locked” that just means I have a little time to be a hybrid 
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yes i have used Inquisition to get haste to 20% the rotation still feels bad and im more mastery based for 80k templar verdicts.
im mastery>haste>crit>vers
/shrug
If you don’t like the Ret rotation, it might just not be to your tastes (which is fine). Using the active talents (and grabbing 1 x Empyrean Power) is a pretty significant change, but if you still don’t like it then going from 15% haste to 20% haste isn’t going to make you fall in love.
With procs and inquisition I have 27% haste and it still feels bad, the only time rotation is close to what it was before legion is during crusade or bloodlust/heroism
I am at 22% is and I can blow out everyone any class, it doesn’t matter no one is able to phase me. That said Haste for retribution keys into how quick does both holy power accumulate and how fast dos cds come off. we are HEAVY cd reliant. Ever tried to go knock that rogue with no cds and wonder why it takes forever? we hit like a noodle without cds(always have). With cds and good haste we hit like a nuclear fission bomb. 15% is the optimal area however 20-22% is what u really should go for. when u have that haste marker your wings literally are off of cd every minute, your templar refreshes every like 3 seconds and your divine storms are at 100% uptime(your never stuck waiting).
Well it was also the gcd changes blizzard has done has slowed down all the classes some of us feel more slower than others.
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