Ret Paladins in dragonflight and why this class is condemned to failure

So far i tested most classes in dragonflight except for shammys and priest , and i noticed something particular on paladins . / also long post

Their failed talents design and concepts .

In dragonflight talents tree there is a constant , many of the skills we had on shadowlands were divided in 2 parts and their strongest talents are just shadowlands legendaries in a weaker version ,for example in the case of paladin not only they divided skills like avenging wrath aka wings in 3 separate talents just to regain its effects from previous expansion they also nerfed its damage in pvp ,
and not satisfied enough with that they gave us a weaker version of ret paladin shadowlands legendaries and nothing else .

For the people that didnt play paladin in shadowlands let me explain you .
Retribution Paladins in shadowlands had objectively the worst legendaries of all classes and specs , just to mention they were so bad that earlier seasons paladins used prot paladin legendary as bis one , the one that summon a angel that give you inmunity for few seconds when health too low , specially on season one they evade completly retri paladin legendaries until in later seasons they changed to final veredict just for the extra range and to be able to use it while disarmed , nothing else .

So paladins talent tree is just that , bad legendaries in a weaker form , skills that were baseline divided in several talents , and skills/ builds like Consecration that have 0 real utility in pvp , talents points to buff the damage of a weak skill by 10% ? one thats static and in best cases cant even become the 1% of your damage ? really blizzard

Now , the other problem is only thing paladin got is burst every 2 minutes , after that they are squishy , while other classes got 2 , 3 or 4 defensives , paladins got bubble/ divine shield that can be dispelled or destroyed by warriors , shield of vengance a skill that get affected by dampening and realistically a demon hunter can pop it in 1 global , and blessing of protection a skill with 5 min cd that can be dispelled , stolen by a mage etc .

The third problem is mobility , whats the point of burst if paladins cant connect it ,if someone even played with them in solo shuffle , you know well that your melee skills uptime on mages is 0% most of the times , we got a 45 second coldown horse for 4 seconds that can be slowed , that require a global and thats it.

And talking about defensive many will say paladin heal was op in shadowlands , there big difference , first we got a big nerf on word of glory on pvp , second we are affected by dampening so hard , third we need to sacrifice our damage to heal us and this healing is usually less than 1 global of a demon hunter , and 4th everyone got a mortal strike effect , people that had it in shadowlands now can apply it more easily or got easier access to it .

While other classes got similar or better than shadowlands , paladins got weaker with a terrible desgined talent tree , a weaker burst that can easily be cced ,or kited , a healing that sometimes is better not to press it than pressing it because you would lose a global .

Also before someone say that at least consistent damage of a paladin is good , no , is the same or lower than a arms warrior , while arms warrior got gap closers to actually have uptime and extra to that have mortal strike a 25% healing reduction , indirectly making their damage to be more meaningful when pressuring .

Blizzard put more effort on this class , holy paladin is terrible , prot is a meme that got heal nerfed not long ago along taking more damage that queue in solo q as healer so people hate it for being weak , and ret is boring , 0 uptime against casters , weak defensives , melee , casters eat it , even healers just saw a resto shammy doing 250k lighting bolt non crit in solo shuffle.

And for the people that is now trying to make dragonflight look like the best expansion , it isnt , stop being delusional , classes design and talents are just reusing shadowlands one , the talent tree is full of bugs , theres disconections when flying randomly , the more you keep hiding this problems with delusional opinions that everything is good the lazier blizzard will get .

6 Likes

The spec has issues and at the very least the devs have hinted that they’re looking at it “as a whole”. It’s not “a failure”, that’s overdramatic.

That said, I wonder how long it’ll take for the usual suspects to come and say “it’s perfectly fine you can sometimes hit an rng decree for 200k”.

The arms buffs will most likely mark a return of ret/warr and once again ret will not get any real updates bc of this lol.

Wish Retribution was at least C+ tier again like it (barely) was for the entirety of Shadowlands.

5 Likes

that didn’t stop ret/warrior from being the best ladder comp 4/4 seasons
just like spriest legendaries being “AWFUL!! HORRIBLE!!” while wps reigned consistently

this is a myth, ret paladins have an absurd amount of kill potential every wings proc

:nerd_face:

use hoj

don’t waste freedom/horse for uptime when you don’t have damage

ret is weird because by itself it “sucks”
it feels like a mage in that doing things alone sometimes feels really bad

but much like mage playing rmx or mlx, you too can play with specs that shore up your weaknesses like either warrior spec and rsham/druid that provide ample support for retributions uptime issues making retrubution a monster spec
just like most mage specs

idk 30 second hoj + blind/rep is a pretty good gain

mark my words and come back to this post if you need to, ret/war/rsham will be one of the most oppressive ladder comps in 10.0.5 at it’s absolute skillflooor

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I wouldn’t write ret off just yet. It really feels like the current talent trees are place holders. I think they just ran out of time, and slapped something together real fast. I beleive you’ll see an overhaul of the ret talents. We just had to wait a little longer than other specs to get our dragon flight trees.

That being said, if they would fix some of the talents in the mean time it would be nice. But ret isn’t in the worst spot ever in pvp. As long as DKs can keep the casters under control and the warrior rogues are trying to kill the dks we have a spot in the meta to squeeze into.

anyone with half a brain is aware that ret/arms/rsham or rdruid is going to be one of the most oppressive comps in the game (like it was the entirety of shadowlands) in 10.0.5

Anyone with half a brain will know that as long as wizard comps are the strongest that ret warrior can’t exist.
Anyone with half a brain will know that there are balance changes happening every single week and the future is unpredictable.
Anyone with half a brain knows that making definitive statements like that means you don’t have half a brain.
Anyone with half a brain knows ret isn’t in a great spot right now, and until that changes there is no reason to play ret warrior over any other melee cleave.

2 Likes

this is also a myth pushed by lifetime 2k ret paladins (shoe fits, but not meant to directly disrespect you btw)

ret/war spent all of sl decimating wps
ret/war spent all of sl decimating dh/boom
ret/war could beat demo/dk just fine

as far as double wizards go demo will be way different without felstorm
we might see splay and l$d but not as abrasively as demo has made double wizard so far this season

i really don’t see a world where a semi-ok ret/war rsham team cant beat a semi ok aff splay

Why would a warrior use ret when dk got same or higher and better burst along consistent damage , along 2 grips that instead of paladin freedom him can instantly bring the target to them , a mortal strike effect of up to 30% that can stack with war mortal strike , blessing of protection also got a larger CD and just protect from physical damage when most damage in high rated arena is magic , even DH damage is 93% chaos/magic

1 Like

This will def be true, but mainly due to Arms going nutty in 10.0.5 with Ignore Pain. Paladin got a damage buff (which I’m still questioning why they applied that to PvP), but they didn’t get anything defensively which they desperately needed into Spriest/Disc/Holy.

When BoP and Bubble can be stripped instantly a Pally really only has SoV (which it did get a CD reduction on Tuesday so that will absolutely help). But any priest ,which is in 95% of games now and will continue to plague every team at every rating across the ladder, can just negate their Bubble + put them on forebearence as soon as the Pally presses his 5 minute CD is toxic to Pally defenses.

Honestly if they got rid of Forebearance whenever a Pallys bubble was dispelled early or BoP was purged/dispelled early then I don’t think it would be nearly as much of a problem.

Ret/Warr has insane synergy with the Pallys burst (which is much higher than DKs btw) and Mortal Strike being applied with Sharpen blade. Ret/Warr is an insane comp and was all through S-lands.

Play it in high rated , you will be cc’ed during wings all time , 20 seconds wings when now clases can slow , cc you for all that time , just dh can fear , stun , stun , imprison , and there your wings go .

Blind breaks by any non holy damage, even radiant decree / wake of ashes hit radiant damage that is holy + fire so it breaks it , crusader strike / blade of justice is physical damage also break it , and any AOE from other player or dispell breaks it , our stun is magical can be dispelled , any high rated player will cc paladin during wings or run

You also said to not use mobility when there’s no damage ,so just use freedom or horse when bursting to reach , both are in global Cd , if you use freedom then horse , your freedome will lose 3 seconds at least of it’s 8 sec duration , horse just last 3 seconds if not talented the extra 1 sec one , if you horse and then freedom , you will get about 1 second of horse without slows and 2 seconds if talented in best case .

2 Likes

I’m curious as to what your definition of this is.

The spec has major issues but with the upcomming patch changes it might be another case of the spec getting nothing because warriors complete it.

ok i didn’t realize i was talking to a new player

don’t attack into your blind use it for cc

this is just completely false

dk damage is really high, some of the highest in the game but as far as global for global funnel damage ret is inarguably the highest

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1047705042540568626/1061457386520465532/image.png

each ret paladin global when it’s doing damage is 100-200k easily
abomb limb pets gargoyle ramp will do 60k damage ramping over 20 seconds with a nasty ms forsure but ret paladin will do all of that damage in half the time then taper off which is inarguably more effective in a fast meta

ret sustained is also receiving a dramatic buff with not only the patch but also the tier bonus making it’s damage during wings procs between swifty goes really really impactful esp when paired with arms
much more than unholy obviously

the issue obviously there is that unholy can sponge magic damage dramatically better than ret but that might not even matter with spriest being cut down so heavily and demo being likely less prevalent

obviously aff splay and l$d will exist but neither of those are as difficult for ret as regular blink frost mage or demo wizard cleaves

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I could be wrong here, but from my experience ret burst is in a league of it’s own as far as ST dmg goes. My ret pulls over 100k dps ST easy with wings over 1.5m damage.

Yeah i really hope they give rets another defensive or two… literally paper defensives… ret is literally trained more than any other spec it’s miserable

2 Likes

:wave:

2 Likes

TLDR. Rets need their top dmg reduced. Some abilities hitting entirely too hard.

2 piece tier, 4 piece tier isn’t necessary to use as Ret since Rets don’t use TV/FV since Justicars Veng A) Hits harder and B) Heals them for some of the damage dealt.

But yes 2 piece tier is very good for a ret, most Rets already have the 2 piece tier though, my ret I play with does.

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