Ret Paladins, How viable will they be?

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

He’s not specifically saying Patchwerk. Most fights AREN’T Patchwerk fights, meaning the OT could swing Nightfall.

he literally said Patchwerk my friend - hence my /guffaw at him

“Nightfall min/maxing isn’t worth it anyways. That uptime only works on a few fights. Most fights aren’t patchwork tank and spanks.”

[Lûnamar-area-52]

Afaik, you’ve only proved it to work with a low level weapon from perhaps one of the worst and most annoying dungeons, that only has 3 charges, and an absolute truck load of consumables, and even then it still won’t outperform other specs with the same amount of effort involved in min/maxing.

It’s most definitely not worth the effort for most people. If you want to put forth the effort, more power to you bud, but no progression guild will actively seek out Ret paladins simply because a few people are zealous in their attempt at proving Ret is capable.

[Aldenel-emerald-dream]

Most fights aren’t patchwork tank and spanks.”

Which means the OT could swing Nightfall when it isn’t Patchwerk. That’s how I’m interpreting it.

Because we all know you can’t OT Patchwerk with a Nightfall. Hopefully, right guys?

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

Afaik, you’ve only proved it to work with a low level weapon from perhaps one of the worst and most annoying dungeons, that only has 3 charges, and an absolute truck load of consumables, and even then it still won’t outperform other specs with the same amount of effort involved in min/maxing.

It’s most definitely not worth the effort for most people. If you want to put forth the effort, more power to you bud, but no progression guild will actively seek out Ret paladins simply because a few people are zealous in their attempt at proving Ret is capable.

no one is suggesting that a SPELLADIN try out for an elitist min/max guild - if anything you want to avoid them like the plague if you are anything other than Holy spec

gnomer MCP farming literally takes 5 mins per clear to get to the boss, kill him and reset the instance

rinse

repeat

[Lûnamar-area-52]

Maybe so, but the effort involved in maintaining the sheer amount of consumables needed to get the level of dps you’ll need to compare to other specs is another thing entirely. It’s this that will be the barrier to entry for most people in even bothering to dps as Ret in raids.

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

@Aldenel-emerald-dream

Which means the OT could swing Nightfall when it isn’t Patchwerk. That’s how I’m interpreting it.

and have really bad uptime on the debuff - we did the math and we looked at every class/spec that can swing Nightfall

if you want to maximize your debuff uptime then you need multiple people swinging it and for Alliance Retribution has the highest uptime plus personal DPS of anyone to do it

sure you can give it to your Fury Warriors for the highest uptime bar none but their personal dps will go down the toilet - it’s not hyperbole - their personal DPS on a PW style fight goes down from a max threshold of ~1800 DPS while dual wielding 2x KT weapons to ~900 DPS while swinging Nightfall

Nightfall - Melee Hunter vs Ret Paladin

Special thanks to Taladril - https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20762086160 and Keftenk for testing things out for me here where we had an interesting discussion on taladril's discord regarding: Nightfall Binds when equipped Two-hand Axe 187 - 282 Damage Speed 3.50 (67.0 damage per second) Durability 120 / 120 Requires Level 60 Chance on hit: Spell damage taken by target increased by 15% for 5 sec. http://classicdb.ch/?item=19169 Troll Hunter Nightfall: +6% Haste Enchantments Hand of Ju…

Same with Melee Hunters - they have slightly higher uptime than Retribution but their personal DPS goes even further down the toilet to lol levels

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

Maybe so, but the effort involved in maintaining the sheer amount of consumables needed to get the level of dps you’ll need to compare to other specs is another thing entirely. It’s this that will be the barrier to entry for most people in even bothering to dps as Ret in raids.

the challenge is what makes it so enjoyable - I’ve never once said going Ret was easy - it is a pain in the butt to make it work on any level

but if we wanted things to be easy, we’d still be playing LOL BFA…

PS MCP farming won’t be needed if Ironfoe goes live with a 10% proc rate so stay tuned my friend!

[Valedria-ghostlands]

Ret

[Lûnamar-area-52]

1hand Ret spec? Wut?

[Skjaldbjorn-lightbringer (Skjaldbjorn)]

um which Offtank is going to be available to swing Nightfall on Patchwerk exactly?

You are making one fight easier and two fights harder.

10 characters

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

1hand Ret spec? Wut?

if it goes live with a 10% proc rate it becomes better than KT weapons - same would apply to Fury Warriors

[Skjaldbjorn-lightbringer (Skjaldbjorn)]

he literally said Patchwerk my friend - hence my /guffaw at him

“Nightfall min/maxing isn’t worth it anyways. That uptime only works on a few fights. Most fights aren’t patchwork tank and spanks.”

Fixed that for you, read the entire sentence.

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

Fixed that for you, read the entire sentence.

yes which is why you want to maximize your Nightfall uptime as much as you can friend - since the OT Warrior swinging Nightfall has the lowest uptime of any class/spec that can swing the axe but is also weaving Annihilator stacks as well

math

[Slyvaun-moon-guard]

They claim that arms warriors were unplayable trash, because that’s what everyone else said, and no one invited them to groups because they were a sizeable difference behind fury warriors and destro locks sitting at the top.

I played an Arms Warrior… I understand this pain.

t DPS in raids as a holy priest. (Yes, this happened. Haste stack until 1.0 smite cast time, then stack crit. Chakra: Chastise. Smite spam and you’re good to go. Only suffered on long fights due to mana.)

Holy s**t I forgot this actually had happened.

These threads are becoming more a meme that hybrids in a DPS role ever were.

Their meme status arguably is why playing with two back then was so much fun, I have FOND memories of those two Ret pallies especially because both of them were a delight to be around and carried their weight.

[Lahgtah-moon-guard (Lahgtah)]

I played an Arms Warrior… I understand this pain.

I played one too as an alt. Never got invited to any PuG’s, which always struck me as odd since I did just fine in my guild raids. I did my part, we killed the bosses, and nobody had any problems with it.

Just goes to show how community perception is often a little bit of truth under an ocean of hyperbole. If there is anything constant in all of WoW’s history, it is this.

Holy s**t I forgot this actually had happened.

It was great fun, and didn’t really pop up until some time after SoO during that great content drought. I suspect similar sort of things will happen in classic, where players get experimental and start actually playing the game for fun rather than stressing out of meters.

[Skjaldbjorn-lightbringer (Skjaldbjorn)]

which is why you want to maximize your Nightfall uptime

My point is that high uptime is only possible on fights like Patch. On every fight that isn’t a tank and spank, even ret and hunters will have garbage uptime, so it’s not worth having a dedicated NF player. Just give it to OTs and be done with it.

if it goes live with a 10% proc rate

Doubt they will use pserver numbers.

http://web.archive.org/web/20070821131917/http://wow.allakhazam.com/item.html?witem=11684

gnomer MCP farming literally takes 5 mins per clear

Keep in mind you can only run 5 times per hour. Meaning 30 minutes running it followed by 30 minutes waiting/playing an alt/another game. At a 40% drop rate, you would need to run it 25 times in order to have 1 for each boss in MC, plus another couple times for Ony. Once BWL launches that’s another 20 gnomer runs, up to almost 50 runs per week

[Loravir-aegwynn]

Keep in mind you can only run 5 times per hour.

Wasn’t it 10 until the big bot wave in Pandaria?

[Nermal-echo-isles (Nermal)]

Honestly raid bosses will die in like a minute so none of this matters. Best way to ignore mechanics is to just reduce to 0 before the mechanics happen. That’s my philosophy.

This is also how it works in retail raiding. Don’t need to worry about certain mechanics on certain phases if you can just BL/Hero and cheese it with some explosive DPS.

I haven’t played in BFA but I did play in legion. I learned dps is the end all be all. Just kill stuff before someone can make a mistake. That does somewhat apply to classic too, since you have such a large 40 man raid group.

Why play it as written when you can have 40 people throwing an Engineering bomb? I can certainly see it happening.

[Slyvaun-moon-guard]

Keep in mind you can only run 5 times per hour. Meaning 30 minutes running it followed by 30 minutes waiting/playing an alt/another game. At a 40% drop rate, you would need to run it 25 times in order to have 1 for each boss in MC, plus another couple times for Ony. Once BWL launches that’s another 20 gnomer runs, up to almost 50 runs per week

I know you are arguing against it but I now want to commission a art piece of a Paladin just sitting in a pile of MCP’s with a crazed look in his/her eyes.

[Slyvaun-moon-guard]

I suspect similar sort of things will happen in classic, where players get experimental and start actually playing the game for fun rather than stressing out of meters.

On the Casual scene if it doesn’t turn out to be a toxic wastefest, most certainly you’ll see people probably experiment around some to see what wacky things could work if only for the meme potential.