If a shaman loses to a ret he’s bad, you can literally purge off our entire class mechanic on no cooldown.
Rets don’t suck. The people playing them do.
3 Likes
I think the old intended snare of paladin design is judge of justice + running slightly faster which is a bit of a meme ofc. I don’t really know if they should give a paladins a generic snare like hamstring, maybe a different type of snare mechanic to be more unique. I remember when they had that avenger’s shield but it was a bit busted working as a snare. Looking at the runes for paladins, their leg runes are just too loaded. 5 runes in 1 slot is crazy stupid. One of them should be turned into a skill book, maybe rebuke or honestly exorcist cause otherwise the spell is just completely useless 90% of the time.
The problem with being a melee hybrid with defensive utility is that its not intuitive or natural gameplay to be out there trying to dps while helping your allies, whereas shaman with offensive/support utility through totems and purge/interrupts/slows is much more natural pvp gameplay and even dps gameplay. Placing a poison cleansing totem while dpsing is better than a paladin dps having to target allies, use decursive or a mouseover macro to cleanse 1 at a time and lose a lot more gcds in dpsing. The solution would be a paladins divine storm should do a cleanse to allies for example or consecrate pulsing a cleanse twice every 4 seconds. The paladin dps needs similar passive supportive abilities built into their gameplay. The best, highest skilled paladin players will do the dps and also do cleanses, blessings, and offheals, but giving just a little bit into the kit will help out to feel like they’re on the battlefield as something more than a warrior with a bubble and no snares
Another idea is for auras that work more like a defensive, offensive or a utility CD for the paladin themselves and allies depending on what aura is on. Maybe a rune of empowered auras - for 10 seconds your aura is empowered.
- Devotion 20% damage reduction
- Concentration Aura 100% immunity to spell knockback/interrupts
- Retribution Aura - reflect more dmg and slow
- Sanctity Aura - Avenging wrath for the paladin, plus it turns all of your damage (physical too) and your allies damage into holy damage and they get the bonus of sanctity aura because of that [note: maybe it shouldn’t turn everything into holy damage because it will probably be a dps loss for casters of other schools, maybe only melee]
- Resistance Auras - reduce the damage of that magic school by 50% or maybe some other interesting mechanic like spell reflect, slows, or healing.
1 Like
Its not a deep spec. There isnt a lot to what can be done with Ret. Mind you, I’m talking about group pvp. You run in and do all you can while you can because you have no snare to keep you close. HoJ is the entire set up and when its down, is resisted, or is dispelled, there isnt as much counter play. No interrupt. No snare. Repenetenc is nice but breaks on damage and is on a one minute timer.
I feel like, as an Alliance healer, I watch Rets just get blown up while doing so little 
Mind you, half the time I literally have to tell some rets that they can cleanse hurtful dots and poisons. Its a true meme spec.
1 Like
Comparison is the thief of joy or whatever that guy said
HoJ doesn’t lock out a magic school entirely for a few seconds…
Counterspell/pummel/kick =/= Hammer of Justice.
Ret paladins have not the mana bar to play this role.
Ret paladins have no good tools to regen mana if they stay 40 yards behind (and even if they’re in melee they struggle).
Weird, I play with a ret buddy all the time and he just runs into 3 people and they disappear. He seems to be loving it, he’s just constantly telling me about his crits every fight.
Shamans are just nuts though so I really dgaf if they give paladins an rpg at this point to counter them.
Oh you smoking cope forsure
The problem with ret in classic is three-fold;
First it has poor offensive capabilities compared to other melee; poor mobility, mediocre burst, and limited offensive utility. And its hard for Blizzard to correct this because of the Paladins class’s strong defensive capabilities
Second, Rets defensive abilities are utilized much much better by Holy. The Paladin classes defensive utility blends together seamlessly with the Holy playstyle, but if you play as ret you have to cannibalize your own group utility just function as a melee dps. A ret needs to use freedom, bubble, and Hoj for itself else you just get kited/cc’d into oblivion without doing any meaningful damage. Holy is free to use those CDs to empower its teammates and pump out heals in Divine Shield.
And thirdly; battlegrounds suck for melee in general.
May your tears quench the thirst of all shaman.
i hate when i die to counterspell
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this is literally it, they have toolkits that they simply refuse to use.
dont they run faster than anyone else and have freedom?
rek bomb literally deletes anyone
ranged stun, ranged finisher, repentance, heal so they can stay in the fight, buffs to increase damage, BoP to stay in the fight vs physical, shocks.
Im not following you here at all.
the rest of it i agree with though
1 Like
50 grounding totems everywhere cause Hoj’s to get immuned. immuned stops stuns from working.
Paladins don’t refuse to use their toolkits.
Their supportive toolkit is mana expensive now give us a SR like ability that doesn’t cut our heals in half and we could talk.
No they don’t.
Reckbomb is deep prot and requires 4 crits on paladin to work.
10 yards for stun.
Ranged finisher is 1 sec cast if not runed.
Repentance is 31 points deep in ret not every ret use this talent.
Holy Shock is 31 points talent deep holy.
And BoP doesn’t protect against evenom for example.
Heals are 1.5 sec cast or 2.5 sec cast and the second one is expensive, sorry if ret pals don’t instant heal your a$$ up for free.
Ask for better regen and instant heal to help ret being a better support next time.
2 Likes
guess they’re just too dumb to do it.
oh you had me fooled, thought they had a talent called pursuit of justice or something that passively increased their movement speed.
they dont have blessing of freedom? did they delete it from SoD?
all the monsters be running that
10 yard 5 second stun, up.
ranged finisher. yep.
they should if they wanna pvp =D just like rek
rogues warriors and hunters would kill for that
or just ever, even if they know we could win a fight if they did.
1 Like
So does Feint death, using any stuns, using fear, disorients, LoSing, etc. An actual interrupt won’t have a long cooldown and will spell lock out. No wonder you have 28k posts, arguing over semantics.
And you too dumb to understand mana =/=energy.
Can you just shut your arrogant mouth now? 
You mean the magic buff that disapear each time there is a shaman or priest on the opposite side?
Yeah right…
So?
Your point?
Then no reckbomb.
Oooookkkaaaayyyy.
It hurts to be you then, next time on character creation screen you’ll choose Paladin instead of rogue.
Anyway you stink of rage and jealousy, go outside and take a deep breath you need it.
1 Like
imagine using your logic but something more realistic **paladin presses bubble and has 10sec to kill any and every single class before bubble falls off. oh you runnin? rep, oh you trinket? dies in hoj. i swear on everything SoD has the worst community. cant wait for it to end when cata comes out and yall get absolutely demolished in arena
No, they dont. Run speed enchant is the same speed as the Ret talent.
Cant be Ret if you go deep enough into Prot to get Rek bomb. Rek is more of a 1v1 talent.
HoJ is Paladins saving grace. Healing is not really viable in group pvp for Ret. Flash of Light does nothing and Ret isnt getting a 2.5 sec cast off in the middle of a scrum. You cant attack while BoP is active. Shocks are a 31 point holy talent.
You dont know Paladins at all.
interrupts being defined by things other than ‘did they interrupt’ is hardly semantics…