Ret paladin viability

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
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Also, to be clear – I have no intention of playing a Ret Paladin, or Shadow Priest, or Feral Kitty (or Balance) druid, or a Melee Hunter, in Classic – but I don’t advocate this ridiculous ‘cookie cutter’ only methodology, like its the only way to play.

So I’m not sitting here arguing for my own intention - I just believe others should be able to do what they want, without the elitist echo chamber trying to discourage them. As long as we aren’t talking about HYBRID changes or talent revamps, I say let people play as-is.

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hahaha omg thats still floating around! :rofl: , I’ve improved faaaar more since the vanilla days promise i dont backpeddle anymore rofl :sweat_smile:

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I’m not saying don’t play what you want. I’m just saying you shouldn’t lie to a new player that is asking for information.

A shadow priest tanked Ony in classic, does that mean shadow is a viable tank spec? Of course not, and if someone asked that question you would most likely tell them that it is not viable. Same is true for Ret in PvE. It’s a fine spec for PvP, just know you’d be a 100x better as holy.

Edit: OP even stated he wasn’t talking about being in a casual guild.

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Is it discouraging them if it’s telling them exactly what will happen when they get there or does it just sound discouraging because you know fewer people will play what they want if that’s what awaits them…

You’re advocating people do what they want and acting like they should expect to still be accepted by a gaming community that will definitely not (based on past, present, and all future iterations of any game ever). The dev in Archeon’s interview video even admitted it takes a very small discrepancy to get massive shun, justified or not.

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Viable actually has 2 meanings IMO.

  1. What the top guilds will take.
  2. What everyone else will take.
    Considering most players wont be getting into or have no intrest in joining a speedclearing, day 3 clearing guild posters like akaidian really have no leg to stand on.

Viability in classic IS NOT top dps.

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well if you aren’t an end game hard core min/max raider then you really don’t care what is “viable” or not…as long as you can survive.

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Except you’re ignoring what the OP asked. He asked if ret paladins had a viable place outside of casual guilds.

Casual guilds will bring balance druids, assassination rogues, arms warriors, ret paladins, enhancement / elemental shamans, and shadow priests. Guilds that are serious about progression will be far less likely to bring these off-specs.

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What I’m saying is people find their tribes of other people who will bring a smart, well-rounded, well intended, good-natured player into their raiding fold, and that not everyone needs to singularly silo themselves into whatever cookie-cutter standard some, or even most, people have decided they should be, just because the mantra is ‘bring only the optimal deepz’.

I’ve played with many a great players who played less than optimal specs and we all managed to get by thru AQ and even Naxx (I admittedly never cleared Naxx, but I got to Saph), and since this will be my second go-around in original WoW, I just want people to enjoy the game ‘as they see fit’, not just what puts them highest on a dps or healing meter.

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I dont understand why people who dont understand ret paladins, have no actual understanding of their role or capabilities and have no intention of playing them keep posting about them. There will be ret paladins, they will raid and pvp and theres nothing you can do to stop it. They are an excellent support and hybrid dps with huge utility so just accept it and for gods sake… Stop Whining!

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You do understand that the majority of the whining is by people who don’t agree with you and want ret to be buffed, right?

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I agree. I personally find Ret to be very boring (but I just get annoyed waiting around for proc-based action) but I would 110% take a player who knows their spec (“optimal” or not) and class, is a team player, and (most importantly) a joy to experience the game with, versus someone who just read some /reddit or EJ min/max theorycrafting on what will give them higher results.

Not that I think there is anything wrong with playing that way, if generally speaking someone is the latter, but there are few fights that check DPS/HPS more so than there are ‘do you know where to stand, or not stand’ during X phase, or what to do, etc. … so I find the downsides to be more minimal than others.

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Stop stating things mathematically false and I’ll stop whining. They’re garbage, even if pure garbage can do the content. It’s about relative power, not bare minimums required to do things. Relative to other, more capable classes and specs, ret is weaksauce. Even in PvP. About the only place they aren’t weaksauce is disorganized or solo pvp, neither of which matter and has more to do with how scrub the person you’re facing is than anything else.

Ret will be in raids, and those raids will suck compared to real raids that actually get stuff done on the front of the curve. I’m not even talking world first types. I’m talking your normal actual raid guild that is equivalent to a guild now-a-days that tops out in heroic.

Rets will be relegated to raids that are the equivalent of normal mode clearers and LFR squads. People who will clear MC months after AQ is released. That life sucks. Being behind the curve sucks. Players in that bracket generally also suck.

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If nothing else, Ret Paladins are great for being an extra Divine Intervention cooldown.

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As long as they aren’t busy tunneling the meters… The Lay on Hands isn’t such a terrible thing to have either.

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This post is great. I need a Paladin like you in my Classic guild and I hope I recruit one with this mentality.

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“stable” meaning that rogues and locks spent the next two expansions having our population drop down to below 7%.

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so its okay for hybrids to play the spec they want no matter what content. but not pures. yeah okay.

but what if they want to be the ninja instead of the swashbuckler?
i mean i could say the same crap as you “a paladin is still a paladin regardless of spec, so what does it matter?”
see how stupid that is?

lol last evolution of vanilla gameplay? no. i’m sorry. wrath was the beginning of the new era.
no cc in dungeons, everything being accessible for everyone, everyone is “equal”.
thats modern gameplay. wrath was not vanilla style. sorry.

definition of viable - capable of working successfully; feasible
seeing as every single boss in vanilla wow was capable of being killed with only hybrids dpsing them, i’d say they were viable.
the word you are looking for is optimal.

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OP asked if ret was viable in a non casual raiding guild. The answer to that is most likely no. You might make friends with some guild and be brought along, but you are holding them back by being ret.

Sub-optimal is bringing an undead rogue instead of an orc rogue. Bringing a ret paladin instead of a rogue is just purposefully gimping your raid.

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the only reason they aren’t viable by those guilds is because they only stack the best dps. and guess what? 14 years has changed nothing. they still change groups on a per boss basis to have the most optimal groups possible. even if it means excluding entire classes from world firsts.

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If played right they do okay. For first clears most guilds will probably want the Paladins healing, although there are always exceptions.

When we were progressing through AQ ages ago, my guild let me roll Ret in BWL with it on farm status.

Is Ret ideal for raiding at the highest level, no. Is it fine for a casual raiding guild that isnt intent on making firsts? I think so.

It depends on the guild, not all are hardcore progressive.