5 shamans, a spriest and a couple of druids is the difference between clearing and chain wiping?
Hit level cap 6 weeks before the TBC expac and haven’t touched a PS yet. Anymore wrong guesses?
1 Like
That’s the equivalent of a few missing dps. It very well could be. If it isn’t, the content is likely on farm.
But yeah it may very well not matter and the fight would be won regardless. However once again if it is, it’d be a bit like playing a rogue and not keeping slice and dice up properly or something. In fact it’d be like playinjg a rogue and announcing “Attention everyone, I’m only going to refresh slice and dice if I feel like it and I usually don’t”.
Viable, not optimal. But every step towards optimal removes a little bit of human error. Fortunately people tend to recognize the difference between the tryhard ret (or enhance shammy or balance druid etc) and people phoning it in, so spots for tryhards are available. Tryhard not meant as an insult, but literally “people that try hard”. So sure you can do it, but that does bring into question why you don’t tryhard with a class that would be better at what you’re doing.
If you’re going to tryhard, rather than spending a ton of cash on consumables to feel proud of yourself because you outdps’d the rogue that’s repeatedly letting his energy cap because he’s busy checking out a girl on instagram, why not do it yourself on a mage/warrior/rogue/warlock where you get more results?
I hear often “dps doesn’t take into account player skill” quite frankly part of being good dps is putting up as high a dps as possible while also being skillful. Avoiding mechanics etc. You’re supposed to both do max dps AND avoid/adjust to mechanics. That’s what makes a good dps player. People don’t do one or the other, you’re supposed to do both. Max dps AND don’t stand in the fire etc.
For whatever reason it is assumed that pures somehow lack the ability to avoid mechanics and hybrid dps have this ability to “catch up” by being good players. They don’t. Pures can easily be good players and hybrids have no way to catch up at all. In fact pures tend to hold their spots by being good players vs other pures.
3 Likes
This is a fair question, and to answer it simply; because at the end of the day and after all the parses are logged, and ranks are achieved, playing a Warrior is incredibly taxing.
When I’m on a Warrior, I don’t get a minute to myself. I spend so much time getting to R14, or getting Ironfoe, farming BiS for everyone, that I log on, and there’s a task list for me. I always HAVE to farm gold. I need to rank someone. People need an alt attuned.
It’s nice but taxing.
When I play my Ret, even doing the same grind to 14, nobody cares lol.
I can leisurely go about my day. Gold isn’t an issue. I get to spend more time with IRL friends. I’ll yolo through a dungeon to help a friend get Headmaster’s Charge.
There’s always things I could be doing, and I always do them. But it’s just such a difference. On a Ret you go gung ho so you can relax and reck bomb. On a Warrior, you’re an AC130 and you’re constantly refueled in the air, delivering ordinance all over Azeroth. You finally land in Azerbaijian or Qatar and take a brief reprieve, but just beyond the horizon line is ISIS, and your crew is preparing the payload behind you.
I will always love playing Warrior. But boy is it taxing at times. I play my Ret full throttle so I can troll people outside Ironforge and eat chips with queso dip.
3 Likes
I’ve watched your posts and you are absolutely right. Someone like you should absolutely be invited to a raid. You’re a tryhard like I said. Not an insult. You go above and beyond.
But lets face it, if you have to go above and beyond to compete, we’re bringing the player instead of the class. That’s not a bad thing at all, however it definitely highlights what’s going on with vanilla specs.
If you want to put in extra work to try to pull your weight as some sort of challenge while squeezing out every bit you can from your character, that’s great. If that’s fun, by all means do it. If you’re willing to put in the effort to do that, you’re useful to all guilds regardless of spec/class and obviously active and knowledgeable.
2 Likes
That’s just one thing at least that’s possible to do theoretically. The big one to me is that your entire party had to have a good alignment otherwise you couldn’t play it and good luck finding that.
There you have it folks. A guy who never raided in vanilla giving an "expert opinion " on raiding in vanilla. Close this thread now.
How can anyone, including elitist paladins, who never raided in vanilla have an “expert opinion” on raiding in vanilla? Why is it perfectly fine for an elitist paladin who never raided in vanilla to give his “expert opinion” on raiding in vanilla?
And yet they still do enough dps to meet enrage timers.
which considering the definition of viable is
“capable of working successfully; feasible”
means they are perfectly viable.
are they the most OPTIMAL choice? No. but the title and OP asks about Viability. in which case, yes they are.
Yeah, I think if someone is going to have 40+ hours a week to play, and wants to play very hard, be in the #1 guild on their server, and parse logs at the very top, they probably shouldn’t play a Ret Paladin. There are much, much better choices out there. The competition for those spots in those guilds are very tough as well.
If people think the absolute best raiding guilds are critical of Rets, they are going go be in for a serious eye-opening when they realize how hyper-critical they are of the best classes. You won’t be taken seriously if you can’t tank. You will be constantly ignored on other gear if you don’t hit Rank 14 on a Mage. You will be measured with every other Rogue and Warlock in the guild to warrant every item drop. “Does he do this for the guild? Is he capable of doing more? He never talks in Discord. He doesn’t play enough.” Etc.
While it may be true those same measuring guidelines are blanket across other classes, when you play a premier class, it is exacerbated and the magnifying lens is much stronger. The margin for error is much smaller.
I loved those guilds and had a lot of fun in them, but as I’ve done almost everything I’ve wanted in Vanilla, I won’t be doing that again.
But if we are going to take this thread and be done with it, all opinions jarbled and smashed through the cheese grater, the fact remains there will be an absolute plethora of quality raiding guilds that will in fact take a large number of hybrids to raids, especially Rets.
Any decent guild knows if they have a good player on their hands, it takes but a simple compromise to have that player acquiesce and help the guild. Let the Ret Paladin have his fun and now and then? Cool, he might spec Holy and help out at times. Hell, have a rotation on the class. This month Paladin A gets to raid Ret, that month Paladin B, etc. They all take a majority vote as to who gets Hand of Rag, who gets Ashkandi, who gets Dark Edge, etc.
There are so many avenues to have a player benefit your raid. And at the end of it all, you will indeed see Rets raiding. They’re there in private servers, they’re there in old videos, they were there in Vanilla, and they will be there in classic. Isolate them and label them and don’t play with them. But people have to realize they are perfectly viable in the grand context of raiding. They just don’t do it big like a few other classes.
2 Likes
You must have missed the post where OP came in and clarified what he truly meant by “viable” and stated he wanted ez invites to the best raid guilds on server without ret holding him back.
1 Like
then the OP should change his wording because that isn’t what viable means at all. the OP means optimal. in that case no, they are not optimal.
He already came in and clarified, so no real need to change the OP or title. However, it does help inform you of what people ACTUALLY mean when they use the term, even if they use it improperly. I’d recommend going forward with that expectation.
Or are you one of those people that got outraged when everyone started using “literally” when they really meant “figuratively”?
Personally, as long as I understand the true intent of someone, they can butcher language and words as much as they want.
1 Like
except most people aren’t going to scroll down to where he clarified. what does the post title say? what does the OP say? that is where people are going to read first and respond to first.
therefore that is what should be changed.
I raided extensively in TBC in couple of guilds with a couple of specs (combat,prot and ret) where the only changes to raiding where less slots and more buffs/debuffs to manage.
In that light I can judge with a degree of accuracy what a raid team needs to succeed. I know the power of JoW,JoL,what you need for buff coverage and the impact of aura’s on encounters.
Exactly as I said, you are trolling classic giving a worthless opinion on raiding which you NEVER did in classic. If you think the only thing that changed was debuff slots you did not raid much in TBC either.
Haha, yeah that’s pretty crazy.
It’s hard for melee dps in the first place.
Ret is certainly fine in a five man, for their buffs, but the idea that they will get an easy invite into a raid, that’s pretty funny.
Even in a five man, some plate tanks and plate healers may opt to bring in a class who doesn’t want the same loot as they do for their off spec.
1 Like
i wish ret was one of the top damage specs in the game in vanilla.
maybe then we wouldnt be subjected to this endless flood of WAAAAAAAAAAAWWW on every forum with classic or vanilla as subjects.
who am i kidding. everyone else would complain.
and then blizzard would make the mistake of listening to them and would make all classes the same and we would end up being grey blobs all with 1 instant attack 1 aoe attack and 1 single target attack that all have the same animation.
why did i type all those words when i couldve just said we would have bfa.
3 Likes
Except the animations are beautiful, compared to vanilla. Gameplay is meh but the packaging is pleasing.
1 Like