Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut.
Right, like I said. Ignore the fact that a vast majority of my parses are both at least purple and done with near-perfect execution of mechanics. The blind squirrel finding a nut in this situation is when I make a mistake or get a low parse. Stats don’t lie. Stop cherry picking what you want to see.
- Won’t matter that the raid composition isn’t 100% optimal
Warriors can’t heal etc, etc. so we are talking 50:95 vs 100:0. 145>100
You like to demean people and then they do it back to you. You appear to not like it as you keep replying trying to protect yourself. So why keep demeaning others?
Nvm, you are so mentally weak that you give in to the bigotry and start spouting it yourself. Then you start arguing that bigoted views are correct and all others are wrong and wonder why people are arguing and slighting against your bigoted ideals. Congrats, your playing a game. Here, have a cookie.
Internet, know how this works?
You’re wearing blinders about vanilla why can’t others wear blinders on something else. Double standards are double standards.
I don’t know why anyone is arguing with you on anything that isn’t vanilla because vanilla WoW is so very different from TBC on that to compare the end games is like comparing icecream to dung. One is tasty and fresh while the others are…refined.
They’re viable. Why someone would choose to raid as ret though is beyond me.
fire rez is good, but it could be provided for tanks only by one holy paladin;
non-tank group fire rez could help a little on Magmadar and possibly on Firemaw,
Vael aura seems inoring res, not sure should it;
everything else is “dont stand in fire”;
Ragnaros encounter is a good example of designer dont ever consider such things like ret paladins or enh shamans, you have a fire res aura … and you will use it for yourself =/
it is interesting to hear about ret paladins on sapphiron ;
and shadow res aura is totally useless in raids;
both JoL and JoW could and should be provided by holy paladin;
they have talents and set bonuses for it;
again you dont need JoL on every fight, JoW is good but not a critical thing on 100% uptime ;
i dont see how dispell could be an argument to ret terrible performance;
of course they should dispell, and mages do decurse if needed,
but you know ret paladin dont have much mana for it; you possibly should switch to int geat… so what the point of brining ret for that? how it makes ret more viable?
500dps is a realy good number;
nearly unachievable good number;
you just dont remember how terrible ret dps was;
remember, 550 dps ret on undead boss with naxx gear and sulfuras;
8-10 healers is ok;
you dont need 5 healers of each class ;
3-4 paladins, 3-4 priests and one poor drood is something like mandatory setup;
you could bring 3 holy paladins, that is enough;
you could bring 4 for every possible buff for everyone,
and only ret paladin need 5 buffs(but it does not help him)
if it was 500 vs 700 … IF
but it is more likely 300 vs 700;
you was overdpsed more than twice by warrior with the same gear;
what the point of bringing ret before holy ?
his dps
and what if his dps input is negligible…
then there is no point of bringing ret
pretty simple
1 Like
i have a bad news for you;
while its only a nominally better than zin’rokh on ap, it is bis for hunters;
and warriors and paladins both could use it ;
i remember some loot drama and one hunter gquit just because warriors and paladins were allowed to bid on it;
Correct, but that doesn’t mean you start letting in bad specs just because you can do something with them. Going in with a raid that isn’t already artificially limited by spec choices improves your odds and performance by that much.
Except that 95% only lasts for 2 minutes and then you’re oom if you’re healing in ret gear on a fight. So still 50% or less. Meaning that total isn’t what you say it is, and that’s the point. Hybrids don’t do a combined 100%. The only way that ret is doing 95% is if he’s actually in holy gear from the start of the fight, where you now have another dedicated healer that is still gimped compared to other actual healers.
The fact that you have the flexibility to swap just gear between fights to fill gaps is meaningless. Very few good clears show different raid group setups on legacy logs. basically just one-off fights like 4 horsemen.
Because how I’m demeaning them is statistically supported. I say “these are the stats, I don’t like people below this bar and don’t want to play with them.” In addition to that, I’m not directly attacking anyone the way they’re attacking me. If they feel part of the group I’m targeting, well, I have no idea because I haven’t looked at even one person’s armory on here thus far.
Not a double standard in the least. I’m applying the same mentality of my current demands to classic. No scrub specs allowed. No scrubs allowed. It just so happens the first one literally doesn’t exist in BFA, where it does in vanilla. In addition to that, it’s not like I’m the only one with this mentality. You’re fighting against the prevailing mentality of pservers as well.
We’ve already answered OP in the light that op was actually asking the question, which is “Can I expect to not get bigoted responses when I apply to guilds that raid in vanilla?” And that answer is a resounding no. He won’t have the same experience as someone playing a non-dps hybrid or a pure dps looking. He will get restricted. What’s wrong with acknowledging that instead of “well only if you try to play with people I wish didn’t exist! If only these people knew! Help me change the world br0ther!”
That’s personal opinion, but what isn’t personal opinion is that modern wow raids require more personal skill to physically complete and less logistical skill to get set up.
2 Likes
You don’t understand the meaning of the word neglible.
4 is a minimum. Light/salv,might,wisdom,kings. Any less and you’re gimping your raid by more than what a ret would bring.
AOE damage does tick before you can move out of it, rag does a ST blast to 1 ranged on a timer,Fire resistance helps more than you think when it comes to saving the healer s manapool,especially if you’re not running druids for innervate.
Any fight with shadow damage disagree’s with you, though priests can bring it instead.
JoW returns thousands of mana over a decent fight length, even hundreds of mana is enough.Ironically not having JoW gimps rets dps substantially.
Have you done chromaggus? Do you know how strong it is to wipe magic,diesease and poison off a target in 1 dispel? Do you understand the 5 second rule and how any cast will put a healer into the no regen part of it? They’re not main dispellers they’re there for when the healers can’t or need to be saving mana.
Your guild is going to get more gain out of it being on a ret than sitting on the back of a hunter.It’s also less than useful for alliance fury warriors and only should be given to horde warriors thanks to windfury.
I love a thread that goes towards 500 replies with pathetic semantics.
Short answer: NO. Ret is not viable and never was.
2 Likes
Going to akaidian it and spout oppinion or back it up with facts?
1 Like
The reality is that there’s room for a token ret, but if every paladin think’s he’s going to be “The One” then there’s going to be a lot of disappointed pallies.
It’s better to be realistic going into it. Most paladins will heal in classic. To go into it thinking otherwise is just being naive.
1 Like
so tell me what it means
there is no class who need both BoM AND BoW, ah except ret paladins
you got it wrong;
it was not about how bad fire res on ragna,
it is about how you could bring it to your group from your melee dps spot
and yes, a good ragna could target ranges only;
a bad one just target ppl with manapool, disregard of their position =/
yes, priest’s buff just better, no need for aura anywhere
it is a good spell and should be used ofc, a pointed holy paladin should update it, its not that hard once in 40 sec; (if its possible in current situation ofc)
yes, dispells are very important;
a good chrom could have a holy vulnerability in his rotation;
a bad one does not;
so ret dps is even more neglible than evrywhere else;
let him make dispels in his int gear, because it is more useful than his “dpsing”;
and i still can see how it make dps spec viable;
0/0/0 spec paladin could do it also;
possible yes;
this thing benefits ret pve more than anyone else, but is there such thing as ret pve?
and it is realy bis for hunters;
fury 2h dps is a good thing even for allies if geared in a right way; doing less dps than two 1h but anyway still overdpsing ret paladins;
i know some guilds not ever consider this thing as pve wep;
To be honest there’s room for a few hybrid DPS slots in a raid.
If we assume that they do 50% the DPS of a pure and that you have 25 DPS then using a hybrid is ~2% DPS loss to the entire raid. It’s not a big deal until you’re stacking a lot of them.
The thing that people will use to keep Rets out of raids is that fact that they’re not optimal in any situation. Even most of the arguments in favour of accepting hybrids is “well it’s not like you need to be optimal, so you can get away with it”.
It also doesn’t help for Ret specifically that all their utility is either A. brought by the 3-5 Holy Paladins your raid has or B. is increased Holy Damage that nobody but the Ret Paladin cares about.
Wrong, again. It is viable, but it’s not optimal. There is a difference between those two. How can people not figure this out?
I said it before (probably in this thread actually), but my old Alliance guild had a number of Rets… we just told them to figure it out among themselves who gets to DPS and who has to heal. Usually only 1 got to DPS at a time, maybe a couple on farm raids or trash. The rest had to put on their dresses and heal. They never seemed to have a problem with it.
1 Like
Anybody paying attention in the slightest should probably be aware of the split on Ret Paladins by now anyway, and be aware of the fact that they might be asked to heal things.
The only ones who will have a problem are the ones who want to be Ret and do nothing but tunnel vision DPS meters.
Those people are better off rolling Rogues or Warriors.
If your raid is good enough you can go with 25 people on many fights. Your entire argument revolves on the fact that ret dps is lower than all other dps but the fact is most fights don’t even need much dps even to speed run it.
Enhance shamans and hunters?
Lol like we could or would give anything to shamans.
Blessing of Might is melee attack power only in Vanilla, so the only Hunter that might want is is the one spamming Wing Clip for Nightfall.
Shamans are all filthy Horde.
Feral Druids would want both though, since their DPS requires shifting in and out of cat form a lot.