We’re going to have one Ret Paladin in our Classic raid group and we are not going to be casual. We ran the numbers and its within reason to have a Ret in the group because of the intangibles involved with the type of person who will be min/maxxing a Ret in the first place, item spread, and the challenge really.
We’re lucky though because our core group aren’t the elitist jerks we used to be 14 years ago. We’re all adults in professional careers, and we don’t sweat the small shcrap like getting sweaty on something like determining value of “% of JoW/JoL uptime parallel to ttk of Rag vs an extra Rogue in the same simulation”. Nah, we like the idea that this person, who plays an underdog, sub-optimal spec, at the highest level is going to be part of our group. They have a lot to prove and we want to give them a space to do that. That is why its viable to us.
PS: If you’re interested in raiding Ret in Classic, hit me up! We’re doing early recruitment in a month or so.
The beautiful thing about classic is that UTILITY and your personal level of play affected more than just “DO MOAR DPS NUB. WTF” in the 40 mans it was ALL ABOUT MECHANICS.
I Raided as hunter/mage
PvP’d as mage/war/paladin
Of those 3 on PvP Paladin was the longest living most ridiculous thing out there.
at L60 in blues… I had a TWENTY MINUTE DUEL with an AQ40 fully geared Ret paladin. He was ASTOUNDED after he beat me then I logged into my warrior and solidly threw him off the top of Ironforge… But paladins were beasts back in the day. Their DPS was REALLY HEAVY and really slow which is why it made it difficult to raid because of how your AP and weapon speed played into damage back in vanilla… Slower weapon? HELL yeah, huge top end and bigger bursts for PvP but slower hits for longevity fights (some of the old fights took FOR.EV.ER.)
Or it was so long ago that I don’t remember everything perfectly. Now that you mention it, you’re right. I had forgotten about that part. I just remember raid settings where I would take care of one buff for everyone and other paladins would take care of the others.
But you’re right, I remember g-blessings being per-class. My b.
Raided Naxx. all the wings and working on Sapph when TBC came out.
Plenty of hybrids in the raid. Definitely a minority but they werent all “just healers or they werent viable”
all the specs brought something to the table. Just others were better at it.
Again. 40mans werent DPS races. They were mechanic races and staying alive to kill the damn thing. (yes, enrage timers and the like but seriously. 30-40ppl plugging away you didnt ever really have DPS issues, you had “DAMN IT. MARBLES JUST DIED TO THE F***ING FIRE AGAIN. STOP RUNNING THAT WAY WHEN RAG GOES UNDER AHOLE”
Ret applies JotC, is in the priest group, several priest switch to dps gear, priest damage comes damn near mage dps spamming smite. Paladins and druids heal otherwise. Between 25 dps the average only needs to come to 355 dps in those 3 minutes you have to kill him. Ret paladins can hammer of wrath. Sure it’s not like a ret can come close to a warrior that can spam 50+ rage executes every global, but they can definitely put out more than the minimum dps while buffing others in the group to help bring him down.
You have no clue about what you are talking about. The only healing you miss out on is 5% crit and a 12% bonus on base healing. As a ret you would have your 2 sets of gear and be able to heal 90-95% of a holy specced paladin while still doing half the dps of a min/maxed rogue/warrior (even more than that after AQ). You can also cleanse and buff priests that dps when healing isn’t necessary.
akaidian is known for this. i mean he claims to be this awesome paladin but he even forgot that paladin greater blessings were class specific. so how awesome was he to forget common knowledge?
Yo,
Aussie player planning on min/maxing ret on launch hit me up on Archeon#11233, Have raid led, have alot of experience as PvE ret will be running full world buffs SP Flask, Songflower, DM, Major Mana & Demonic Runes on CD etc. dependent on available content bla bla bla… However will be focusing on the R14 grind again when Honor patch drops drops for BIS, will probably roll on major streamer servers for guaranteed population.
Plus given that when he did think they were group/raid wide, he was just going to use the one that was his personal best I would say he’s just not a good player in general.
He’d gladly hinder everybody else in his party just so he can stroke his own ego about how great his DPS is.
You can’t swap gear mid-fight. The presumption here is that some people here think, as a hybrid, you should be indulging all roles simultaneously (or at least healing and dmg) during a fight.
you would OOM
you would be garbage at both roles, and your total worth would still be less than a dedicated person with only 1 role
Helping a few healers get cleanses off 5 seconds faster than they otherwise would is still useless
The only time it wouldn’t be is if it were a hard pass/fail where everyone had to be dispelled within 5 seconds or something. Those didn’t exist, and if they did, it was still probably better to bring one more dedicated healer.
That’s what this is about: is ret desirable and optimal (viability in the eyes of the achieving public is always based around what is best case, not what is possible).
To me, the best rets in the world are the ones who top those charts on warcraft logs. They still down the content, they do their intended/desired job the best. I’m not interested in some hybrid monstrosity where 90% of my desirability is my passive buffs or ability to help bad players out of sticky situations. would I do it? Yes. Do I mind if I suddenly CAN’T do it and it’s removed? No.
Also, around the “he’s not a good player if he does selfish things in faceroll content!” yeah, sorry. I essentially solo normal mythic dungeons. I set the pace, I pull mobs, I tank, I do 300% more dmg than the next random queue scrub, and I’ll heal myself if need be because the group is a drama queen. That mentality is going into classic, and I’ll still successfully complete 5 man runs (and a heck of a lot faster than you if I’m guessing). So no: I don’t care about my party members for things that are as easy as vanilla dungeons.
Common knowledge for who? It WAS common knowledge, now it’s just a game some poor people and some diehard fanboys play that still retain that knowledge. Sorry I don’t recall everything perfectly. I’m not going to be bothered to hit up classic DB every time I try to recall things. It’s immaterial to my arguments.
As somebody who was a hardcore raider up until Cata, the best players aren’t necessarily the ones at the top of the meters.
The people with the mentality that they’re just there to stroke their ego about how great they are are usually the worst types of people to play with. Despite how great they insist they are, they often hold your raid back rather than let you progress faster. They’re usually the source of a lot of drama while insisting that it’s everybody else’s problem and that everybody else needs to cater to them.
Which that is the only mentality you have ever displayed around here, and that’s why I say you’re not a good player.
You can have fun being beat on the meters by Mages who are abusing Ignite, though.