Ret paladin is off in pvp

when I play PvE, everything is fine, but when i do pvp, it seems ret paladin and at the same extent protection paladin both fall out and become the worst melee to play. Maybe the nerfs on the pvp side are way too strong for a class with no mortal strikes.
After reaching 2400 in Solo shuffle and in blitz, I can feel the apparent lack of optimization potential. It feels and plays like there is no way to play better, that some fights and matchup are just decided in advance and no matter if i play like a rank one or a casual ret paladin I will die.
Ret paladin and prot paladin are playable for certain, they do manage to win many fights with good management of utility and saving teamates who play subpar with immunities or removing their cc is maybe broken in some aspect, since the class can literally carry others in a sense of them being better than they actually are at the game. ( Ex : look how much healing i did that game, im so much better than i was with these other players haha - says the healer who got blessing of sanctification 20 times that game)

Ret paladin is balanced harshly around that pvp talent, the one and only ‘’ blessing of sanc ‘’ as we call it.

Maybe the issue lies in that, a power to use medallion on anyone every 45 sec which works on most cc.

Then lies the issue when you cannot use the ability, you lose alot of value and you wonder what a warrior wouldn’t do better in every scenario.

Alot of bugs still aren’t being addressed for paladin, and on top of that, ret paladin still has the ability to do range dmg which greatly impacts the playstyle of being a range but also melee because crusading strike/ templar strike that can feel clunky.

I kinda miss ret in legion, simple yet effective and with a complexe and skillful cap on being able to use 30 macros because every single ability is party 1-3 arena 1-3 instead of being one or the other.

Ret needs something, but it isn’t damage, maybe a mortal strike, maybe just a teleport ability like heroic leap, roll, tiger’s dash, charge, grip, etc that can make it reach it’s targets with the press of a button. Maybe it needs it’s healing unerfed and become the hybrid it used to be.
Maybe it only needs some cooldown reductions like ice block which became a 2 min cd with 2 charge and karma going from 3 min cd to a 1.5m cd, or AMS that went from 1 min to 15 sec cd. Maybe ret/ prot need that 2 min cd bubble/bop and 2 min cd loh and play around forbearance to survive.
So much to do yet nothing changes… i hope next expansion has better pvp and we can see the most played classes have more players high rating than the least played classes have the most ( its quite unintuitive to see more ferals, etc when i see 5 ret paladin in none rated bgs all the time )
( why are all the ret and prot paladins stuck at 1.8k or underis what blizzard should wonder about )

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Paladin damage is bugged right now and they hit way too hard or for twice on single abilities. Seen it in pve and pvp.

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I don’t want to import this from the other thread.

But to be clear.

There’s no substance to those claims yet.

Logs don’t show this in the raid at all.

If we go into the individual logs for M+ it show the top performers are doing their damage playing LIGHTSMITH and not templar.

And there’s no log for PVP, so it’s all hearsay.
But there’s not a single soul talking about this on the PVP forums in the last 2 days which is suspicious considering how contentious paladin are in PVP and how easy it is to rattle this community into thinking Paladin should be nerfed.

EDIT: He has since showed he doesn’t have a clue.
He think WoWlogs M+ Ranking is an indication of DPS…

The only thread there is asking for ret buffs. So you basically know the state the spec is in.

Nobody serious and not trolling in pvp is conplaining about ret

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Not nerfed. Fix the bugs, which they said they’re doing. If you think a bug fix is a nerf youve got issues.

Btw. Warcraft logs actually prunes all logs that show bugs from their ranking/scoring.

Just like they did with the rogue exploit and shaman bug.

Major streamers moved to prot paladin (pve) and ret paladin (pvp) dark iron dwarves recently and even named their paladin chars “fotm” alts. All the top ranking teams also have one on hand but blizz has asked the MDI to not abuse bugs.

Paladin has like over 10 major bugs if you chech the post made “ everything wrong with ret paladin” you would know.
I guess you don’t because as long as the bugs aren’t a buff to us you turn a blind eye lmao. Hypocritical warrior.

Who said anything about nerfs here?

I didn’t mention that. You’re hallucinating.

I’m saying you are claiming something that is unsubstantiated.

They do once the bug as been found, no one said anything about this bug and there are still Ret and Prot templar logs which mean they didn’t.

Even the rogue bug was up on wowlog up until it was found out, and it was found out because, guess what, THE LOGS WERE SHOWING THEM ABSOLUTLY DESTROYING EVERYONE ELSE.

And it was acknowledge by blizzard.

As of now, there are no logs supporting your claim and no blizzard communication

They don’t prune in real time, how the hell do you think this thing works? :rofl: :rofl: :clown_face:

This means absolutely nothing on its face other than telling us you’re naive and impressionable.

That’s not why Ret isn’t brought.

If the bug was as prominent as you claim it is then Ret numbers everywhere would be wild, they aren’t.
Which means the bug is either not easily replicated or it’s specific to PVP, which then means they could just not repeat the sequence that provoke it and bring them anyway.

The reason it’s not brought is because the other spec brought are

  1. Better flat out, which they are for the format.
  2. synergize better with each other and the dungeons requirements

Check warcraftlogs under M+ tanks all star ratings.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAH

I was waiting for this one.

You couldn’t have shown your ignorance more plainly than by this.

Now everyone knows you’re a clown.

Do you know how is derived the M+ score/points on WoWlogs?

On the key difficulty achieved by the specs and the time it took, relative to their role…

It has nothing to do with actual DPS numbers…
Because on that same chart Resto Shaman is 3rd and Augmentation Evoker is 1st…

The only thing this means is Prot paladin is the spec that completes the highest keys as tanks, which they are.

Same for Resto shaman.
And the 3 meta dps are Augvoker, Frost DK with either Enhance or Rogue, which are both 4th and 5th…

Nice try.

Need more?
Who’s the 2nd best tank/ was first before prot pal?
Prot warrior.

Who’s the next tank in that chart after prot paladin, in 10th place? Prot Warrior…
Where is Ret? 15th place

Its not a DPS chart :rofl: :rofl: :clown_face:

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Ret pally tears are the best

Grats on 2.4k. Ret is pretty average in PvP right now, maybe below average if you consider all forms of rated PvP, so there should be space to buff it. To start, I’d ease up on the negative PvP modifiers. WoG and FoL should heal for more, DP should reduce damage by 20%, and normal Wings should be an alternative to Crusade.

Our PvP talents need work. Aura of Reckoning should be moved to the Ret tree (can share a node with a PvE talent like Tempest of the Lightbringer) in order to free up a mandatory slot. Spreading the Word should have appropriate effects for Sanct and Spellwarding, Lumi should always be active, Hallowed Ground could also drop a Cons at your feet whenever BoJ drops one on the target, Spellbreaker should be baked into baseline E4E, etc. Could use a brand new PvP talent too, something actually useful this time.

I have a couple, shall we say unique, ideas as well. The first is that Judgment of Justice should have an alternative talent that does the exact same thing, except rather than snare by 30% it limits movement speed to 100%. Would be good in Blitz, against druids, etc.

The second is that Divine Steed should benefit from Blitz’s increased mount speed. Steed usually benefits from this sort of thing (Crusader Aura, mount speed enchants, etc). This idea may sound wild at first, but paladin is not great in Blitz. We have trouble disengaging on node maps, sticking with the flag whether it’s our FC or the EFC, etc.

That’s how I’d improve Ret PvP. I don’t want MS and I don’t want to lose Sanct.

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Are you sure about this? I was under the impression that this is not true and I did some casual testing with crusader aura and another paladin to this end before.

It does but the thing is the guild perk for mount speed is nearly the same and they don’t add up.

So it’s barely noticeable.

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Crusader Aura is a sad shell of itself from back when mount speed buffs multiplied, and even that wasn’t that huge outside of like AV back in the day. I really think it should do something more than what it does presently.

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Oh look another thread by Mortalx complaining about paladin pvp. You make threads every week with the same complaints. Your threads get buried and die for a reason.

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I totally agree with your ideas and suggestions. If they read your comment and acted on it i think ret would have a place in 3s and invited into LFG for once.
I miss being able to do none Solo stuff because nobody wants to invite us, your opinion is great and would make people invite ret for their support for once.

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Yes, you can copy and paste this to test:

/script ChatFrame1:AddMessage(string.format(“Player speed: %d%%”, (GetUnitSpeed(“Player”) / 7) * 100))

To benefit from Crusader Aura it needs to be active before you cast Steed.

Thanks. Yea, only meta specs get easy invites, and by meta specs I mean S tier. I don’t think Ret is unplayable in PvP, it’s just not S tier.

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Crusader Aura doesn’t work on rated.

It’s disabled in rated BG’s. I think it works in arena, and as for Blitz, it doesn’t stack with other mounted speed increases so naturally it wouldn’t do anything there. My wild suggestion earlier was that the +75% (or whatever it is) that you get in Blitz would work with Divine Steed. Crusader Aura would still be useless.

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The fact a ret pally can solo a group of people in arena :rofl: