Divine Protection is feeling pretty pathetic as a defensive, it lasts only 8s at 20%? It should be 15s at that value. Shield of Vengeance should be baseline for Ret, Aegis of Protection shouldn’t be a choice node with another mediocre defensive. SoV and Divine Shield should also be off the GCD, nothing worse than hitting defensives and dying because you’re GCD locked.
4 Likes
To be fair defensive in PvE are to be used BEFORE the dmg hits, so that entails some forward thinking on the player’s part. Being GCD locked is usually not an issue if you plan the usage before hand.
1 Like
I think I disagree more than agree with this. Templar is tanky in m+. Sacrosanct Crusade, on top of our other defensives, is very strong. Divine Prot is a 20% damage reduction and 15% healing amp, which isn’t bad; it could probably have its negative PvP modifier reduced or removed, though.
I can see Divine Shield coming off the gcd. I don’t like having to sit on the gcd when in danger. I generally know when to play it safe like this, but the mechanic feels dated and not fun.
I don’t think SoV needs to baseline / Aegis of Protection essentially become free. However, Aegis of Protection should be an actual alternative to SoV. I’d start there by making it also increase DP’s duration by 50%.
Guided Prayer should trigger sooner like similar effects from other classes, probably at 35%, and FoL should be stronger to make Light’s Celerity and Selfless Healer viable options.
So yea, this is all either QoL, minor buffs, or reviving dead talents.
2 Likes
It’s not strong at all, especially without multiple targets. It’s a 700k barrier every 30s, sure it looks like it did a lot because its usually top on healing but in reality its not doing much of anything because you aren’t holding it for when you take damage. It’s a mid version of Fading Light and definitely doesn’t hold a candle to prenerf version.
It is definitely bad, it’s on the lower end of defensives, it’s not the worst but it’s almost there, it’s only redeeming quality is the 1m CD.
We need it, I’m not quite sure why our defensives were nerfed coming out of DF. We stopped stacking vers and that was enough of a nerf right there. I don’t think we need 20% extra from Aegis it could be brought back to 10%, or a choice node between 10% extra or longer duration. Divine Shield can’t even be counted on as an individual defensive anymore, it’s more group utility for mechanics in Mythic raiding at least. SoV being on the GCD makes it feel terrible to use, for me at least. Ret is creeping up the charts in deaths again.
You are right, but also wrong, there are still plenty of ways to end up in unexpected situations where you can’t plan ahead.
1 Like
You didn’t factor in the follow-up HoL that adds to the barrier. It’s more like 1.6 mil, or 19% of our health in AoE (drop that to 15% in ST).
I wouldn’t call it bad, but even if I would it’s only one defensive. Our defensive kit as a whole is good.
I don’t raid, maybe things are different there. I’m curious to hear what others think about m+ because I think Ret survivability is perfectly fine there.
In pvp DP is a 10% wall I think. Doesn’t help much at all.
2 Likes
Fixed it for you!
7 Likes
I’m only 3/8 mythic but it’s half and half. You do use Bubble to clear and cheese mechanics as a utility but it was 100% not mandatory.
We got defensives for every pull, every AoE damage the boss does and when all else fails WoG can certainly save you. Our survivability in Mythic+ it A+ Tier IMO. It’s very, very rare I feel like it’s the healers fault for letting me die, I could’ve always done something to mitigate or prevent it.
2 Likes
Very true, we are absolutely fine in PVE.
What needs to be done is just unnerf DP and SOV in PVP… that’s it.
2 Likes
I’ll echo some others here.
It’s fine, it took a hit when they made it a choice to buff DP or have SoV instead of 1 talent buffing them both beyond what they do at the moment but that was probably overkill anyway.
Like, it looks worst than it is because we’re no longer stuck stacking vers like in DF so there’s a whiplash there.
SoV also has a versatility scaling so it really fell from some height.
It could reach like 45% of your health easily late DF.
But objectively, SoV, DP and bubble with BoP really covers anything there is to cover in M+ and Raid.
Plus we also have the flexibility of using a 40% DP instead of having SoV.
Personnally I think the kit is pretty strong and that’s not talking about what the Hero Spec gives.
1 Like
I think ret defense is in a pretty good spot these days. I’m happy with it.
1 Like
In PVP. What % wall is Divine protection if you do not use Shield of Vengeance?
The Aegis of Protection says it adds an additional 20%, so it should be 30% total in PVP… as opposed to 40% PVE.
Unless it’s bugged or nerfed. 
1 Like
Is it just me or is HoL pretty weak in pvp?Stacking Mastery Vers, on players I dont think I’ve had a HoL above 1.7m and without all CDs its like 700k. FV might hit a player for 345k or so, but I’ve also seen 265k or so. The weirdest thing about FV damage being so low is I had a Judgment hit a player for 500k.
Using an addon to help me switch off of players with defensives active, when I hit targets without defensives as far as I can tell active, I’m taking massive damage if I dont have an immune active, but the enemies health barely moves. This is troubling because my output is the highest just about every solo shuffle round, but enemies health bars dont look like this is the case. Cant seem to harm mages, S priest, some warlocks, or healers at all, some of the time, I certainly have killed some locks and healers.
Aegis of Protection seems to serve me well as SoV pops in a second or two and DP at 10% serves no purpose. I haven’t really investigated which option offers more defensive, but DP with Aegis feels slightly better.
Sounds about right.
There’s a PVP modifier on both HoL, Crusade/AW.
I don’t think you can get much higher than this on this patch.
I heard, thats bad 
. It’s odd, normally in WPVP, Skirmishes, or BGs I see the impact of my damage and it feels good with the same tuning, but Solo Arena is very hit or miss, mostly miss, how the same damage output barely affects players.
Ive gotten 2.5M hammer of light crit once in arena and 3M in bg but that was with zerk and saltwater.
I am of the idea that as the pvp seasons progress HoL is gonna lose value. Right now fully pvp geared with bis stats Im at 40% mastery already. Gemmin everything will bring me to 42% in season 1
Season 2 and 3 will start with us well within the stat dr and will slow down how much HoL grows.
1 Like
I have felt something like this. From now going back to Dragonflight, I’m almost always top damage in Solo Shuffle. But that doesn’t mean I’m killing everything.
I still think the only thing that’s missing is stronger finishing power. If something’s about to die…it should.
2 Likes
Right? For our 600k min 1.7million max HoL to get a kill the target must be just north or south of about 10% health, and to get the target there, cc locking, searing glare, los or some combinations of effects must be on the healer or…the round lasted 4+ minutes to have some strong dampening. When I play Ret now I feel like a Sub rogue without the cool tools. We are a spec that does damage through death by 1000 cuts like a rogue. Lots of instances of little bits of damage that hopefully add up. It works sometimes, but I prefer FV to feel like Frost Dks Obliterate or even how Arms Warrior functions, less frequent large chunks of damage.
1 Like