Ret needs buffs

Does Ret paladin have a dev working on it? All of s3 and s4 DF we were tuned around the legendary axe. Now the axe is gone.

Ret single target is abysmal compared to all other melee specs. This is going to be a huge problem as mobs live longer in m+. ST has been an issue for a long time in m+ but balancing never seems to happen to address it. The buffs/nerfs that just happened this past reset don’t really change anything. Just feels like Final Verdict hits like a wet noodle. Aoe is fine, but when it comes to any prio damage or bosses it just feels bad to play in comparison to let’s say warrior or monk.

Are there any intentions of ever addressing ST issues ret has? Other melee specs like Warrior, shaman, monk, rogue are all outperforming it in dungeons and raids. Pretty sure nerfed frost dk is still better lol.

Sure I can just swap mains, but feeling like I’m forced to play a better melee spec due to in game balancing just feels bad.

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It’s a team that supervise many classes, it’d be pretty dumb business wise to have 1 person per single class.

They don’t seem to adjust anything because of M+ unless something is a clear outlier.
It’s a mode with dynamic difficulties that has more flexibility to how it can be approached, It’s not as evident to get a definitive picture on the performance of any given class.

In contrast, mythic raid is standardized, its much easier to get conclusive data from it.
So the bulk of the changes would be made when the raid comes out.

Furthermore, they’ve showed a proclivity to make more drastic adjustment after the race to world first as to not influence the spec/classes after guilds invested into.

The thing is, ret is plagued with bugs.

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Very bugged right now, tho I will say that final verdict feels horrible. Something needs to be adjusted with it for sure.

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This is the more pressing issue IMO

Please elaborate im curious what you all are seeing

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I will be very very surprised if any race group has a ret in their group.

Lvladen made a video about it.

The biggest issue is probably Dawnlight (Dot from Herald) not critting and not scaling with mastery at all.

That’s a huge reason why it is behind as much as it is from templar.

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Just feels like they bandaided ret damage with the Lego. Ripped the band aid off and gave nothing in return. Ret felt great s3 and s4 of DF, but feels I’m swinging a wet noodle around now.

Gotta wait for tuning pass after heroic raid week probably, then they’ll have the raid data they want to tune after

I guess I’m wondering if they are even aware of the state of ret coming out of beta or not.

For all intent and purposes, we’re still in the beta.

They didn’t get the time to finish before the launch and that’s transparent.

The build works and it’s stable, that’s it.

I’m sure a bunch of others spec have their own bugs.

We were in DF for 21months, DF should have been a 2 years expac, they could have used those 3 month but they didn’t get enough content to go 2 years on DF so they went into TWW right away.

Are they aware of Ret? Maybe

They are probably mostly aware that a bunch of things don’t work I’m sure, but they are working on specific priorities.

Well it seems they are:

Paladin

  • Dawnlight’s damage now correctly scales with Retribution’s Mastery.
  • Dawnlight’s damage can now correctly critically strike.
  • Dawnlight’s AoE healing no longer double dips with Versatility.
  • Sun’s Avatar damage now correctly scales with Retribution’s Mastery.
  • Sun’s Avatar and Dawnlight’s AoE no longer deal damage to enemies out of line-of-sight.
    Retribution
  • Fixed an issue causing Mastery: Highlord’s Judgment to not increase damage from Seal of the Crusader.
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Thank An’she, we’re saved. Can’t wait to see if it’s now competitive with Templar.

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Well wait, hold on. Do you guys have personal sims you can link? What are you simming, 700k on a 5min patchwerk? That’s ahead of a ton of specs, including Spriest, Outlaw, Balance and Fire Mage.

Can you guys link some sims? Sharpyy (Blackhand) is simming just under 600,000 but I don’t think you’re in your raid ST spec. Thantore is i559 so there’s no point even simming him.

Let’s get some actual numbers before you guys say you’re “abysmal”. If you’re above 650,000 you’re right about on the curve. If you’re around 700,000 you’re top 50%.

Well we’re talking about experience with hc dungeons for now. But sims show that ret is below, from what i’ve heard.

I’ll sim next time i’m able to and post it.

Yeah no one cares. Heroics are not competitive content and Blizzard should not be tuning around them.

Obviously.

Now if you guys want ST tuning, great. But from what I can see, you’re behind about 10 other specs in line for it. Our guild Ret is simming 715,000 although he’s i585 and quite geared. Not the highest sim we have (Arcane, 916,000), but not nearly the lowest sim we have (Outlaw, 565,000).

From our in-house testing and comparing with a few of the guilds in our little server community, Ret looks okay. It’s solid AoE, decent ST. Granted, the race-to-world first won’t likely bring any. But they won’t be bringing a LOT of specs. Enhance won’t go either. Neither will Windwalker, Outlaw, Sub, Feral, Survival or likely Arms. Fury, Deathknights and maybe an Assassination rogue look like the extent of melee in the 20man mythic raid meta.

It’s not that it’s tuning around them, it’s the data available now.
That + sims as i said.

That’s also subjective data, idk what ilvl your arcane or outlaw have. And what talents they chose, if they’re the best or not.

Also ret had a thousand fixes done last hotfix round, so we’ll have to see how it handles itself against Templar which was higher ST.

Paladin

  • Dawnlight’s damage now correctly scales with Retribution’s Mastery.
  • Dawnlight’s damage can now correctly critically strike.
  • Dawnlight’s AoE healing no longer double dips with Versatility.
  • Sun’s Avatar damage now correctly scales with Retribution’s Mastery.
  • Sun’s Avatar and Dawnlight’s AoE no longer deal damage to enemies out of line-of-sight.

Retribution

  • Fixed an issue causing Mastery: Highlord’s Judgment to not increase damage from Seal of the Crusader.

I also don’t think your in-house testing is any more valuable than our experience with ret.

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i584 is what we’re requiring for raid next week. All 24 of our current active raiders are i584-i589. So the sims are pretty good comparisons. Everyone is simming with the best possible ST spec (either from Wowhead, Icyveins or Class Discords - some specs do have some controversies) and re-running sims comparing trinkets.

It’s a very good determinant. Granted, not perfect, but very strong. Ret seems very middle-of-the-pack.

The too-strong outliers:

  1. Arcane is 100,000 DPS ahead of everyone
  2. Demonology
  3. Fury
  4. Windwalker

The too-weak outliers:

  1. Outlaw
  2. Balance
  3. Fire Mage
  4. Spriest
  5. Survival
  6. Destro

The highest specs are up around 900,000, the lowest specs are about 600,000. That’s a huge, almost 40-50% difference between the highest performers and lowest.

I’m not saying Ret doesn’t need attention. You have a lot of bugs. But in terms of performance, you seem dead average. Frankly, Blizzard should be tuning specs up and down to about Ret’s level.

If anyone needs desperate, last minute tuning it’s Balance, Fire, Spriest and Outlaw. They’re racing freakin’ tanks. They’re going to get sat for progression in any somewhat serious guild. Ret isn’t. Or at least, shouldn’t be.

Just because these specs may require buffs, doesn’t mean ret doesn’t require buffs either.
Being middle of the pack against what? No class should have a 2nd spec higher than classes with only 1 dps spec in any case.