This topic has been indirectly addressed in other posts, but I’d like to start a more pointed conversation about our range of play. Do you have a preference?
Like some of you, I really miss mid-range. Tuning can always be adjusted, but if all things were equal, with our current mobility situation, I’d be much happier with a near full suite of mid-range spells (or at least the option to spend our Holy Power at a slightly longer range consistently).
I was a bit confused when they said prior to Legion launch that they wanted to bring Ret firmly into melee range, to much applause I might add, and yet Blade of Justice replaced Exorcism with a 12yd range (still well out of melee), and one of the most lauded additions was a 20yd frontal projection of our Divine Storm (I miss this one too).
I like the more visceral feel that is suggested with being “in the melee” but I think the execution of it just leaves me cold. I feel that the current Ret design fights against itself in this regard: we lost a good chunk of our ranged options while also losing our reliable movement speed capabilities!
If our mobility had been more aggressively addressed, perhaps in the form of a sticky gap closer, I wouldn’t feel this way but there it is.
So, in a perfect world (of Warcraft) which range would you choose? Current, old, or some blend? I hope Shadowlands delivers on player agency by allowing us some amount of choice on this issue!
For reference: this entire expansion I have taken ES/HoW/HoR (pvp) just to give me some semblance of that mid-range capability. I’ve even gone as far as doing wonky builds with Indomitable Justice and the much reviled Divine Judgment, but that is more a passion project
We’re supposed to be a slow Juggernaut. Which is normally tanky, but we arent. And on top of that we are extremely slow. And they didnt give us any proper tools to support the Juggernaut design or help us in our extreme weakness.
I would like to have the spec turned into 15yards range.
HoJ, BoJ, TV, DS to 15yards, crusader strike could stay melee range.
I prefer a hybrid of both melee and some range, but nothing generally beyond 15yards. This is how Ret has always been since Wrath(well you could say since the beginning too) WoD Ret was the best example of this, with good overall mobility combined with ranged damge.
@Fylerz I really resonate with what you said about the theory of us being a “slow moving juggernaut” vs the reality. I do feel the same. I have pretty vivid memories of having to kite and hide a lot, and not much has changed apart from the fact that I can’t do that as well as I once could—apart from Unbound Freedom, I do want to give credit where it is due; this talent has helped a lot in pvp. I would be all about the melee if I could actually fight “on the sword” and trade blows like say, a DK, but we pay dearly for our vaunted immunity spells. Really easy to play around and outside of them or in the forbearance window we are really easy to shut down.
@Covahredro WoD ret is nearest and dearest to my heart as far as that nice blend you mention. I can’t help but repeat that I think we wouldn’t miss emancipate and PoJ or LAotL/SoL if we just had a bit more of that range back. I kept hoping they’d give us something like Falling Sword or the Crusader’s Charge from Legion Beta (iirc was for prot only though).
I am indifferent as long as we get the tools to be viable. I liked our mid-range playstyle, but I understand why blizzard didn’t like it for us (I guess mostly because other players complained that they can’t get rid of us in PvP). It was a quite unique playstyle though.
The problem as you pointed out: they took our range but didn’t give us the tools to stick to a target. you hardly kill anyone with just Judgment and HoW. So either give us back some range on our attacks or options to reach our opponents.
We were always a melee-range hybrid until Legion. We were designed around being better than melee at range, and better than range in melee. So yes, melee-range hybrid.
I feel like heavy slow juggernaut has always been DKs fantasy and somewhat warriors albeit with a bursty mobility. Ret for me has been a spec of “slighter faster movement” and “poking around” and “AoE”. So essentially MoP and WoD version.
I feel like the game just in general lost a ton of fun when they tried to address “homogenization” and “ability bloat”. I mean, fantasy is fantasy, but I can’t imagine anyone in WoD saying - I want to be a slow hard hitting juggernaut. It was just sort of forced upon us. And now two expansions later they’re still yet to make the spec fun.
Like check this, this was such a beautiful playstyle:
Yeah But I feel like having to many abilities that can reach out beyond 15yards makes ret too much ranged(especially when its all instant cast). I believe that was the problem Blizzard had with WoD Ret.
To be a true hybrid of both ranged an melee is to be mid ranged. To keep abilities below the range of a class range, but somewhat above melee’s. Though closer to melee as Paladins are still a melee fighter.
The reason I think this, is that the advantage an attack being ranged is its reach, but its disadvantage is it has to be more stationary, having to cast(usually). For melee its advantage is being instant cast and usable on the move. But its disadvantage is its poor reach, having to get up close.
So something between the two advantages and disadvantages is a happy medium for being a hybrid of both. So a 15yard range is this happy medium, as you’ll have greater reach(the advantage of range), but will still have to run in somewhat to close(the disadvantage of melee)
Perhaps my initial post isn’t specific enough. I, perhaps wrongly, assumed that most if not all Paladins realize that it is always optimal to be in melee, but that real-time combat doesn’t always allow for it.
With things like art of war this is even more clear, so again, the subject at hand isn’t whether or not we should be in melee at all times but rather the ability to build and spend at increased ranges while we hobble after our targets for the needed auto attacks.
If you are keen on suggesting ranged auto attacks as well, I’m all ears:)
No, but you had Judgement, Exorcism, Hammer of Wrath and Execution Sentence/Holy Prism all at a 30yard range. That’s quite a bulk of Ret’s damaging abilities at basically caster range, when Ret is supposed to be primarily a melee.
Wasn’t Final verdict ranged as well? So you could pop off whatever that ability was that increased HP gain and basically alternate between a builder and a spender, all while at mid range?
They should give exorcism as a ranged spender. Maybe 1-2 HP cost and damage at a worse ratio then TV, but it’d be something to dump some HP into when you can’t close range, instead of just waddling around furiously.
Well Zeal could also increase the range of the next 3 auto attacks, sending out arching slashes of light towards the target. Would put it in line with Execution Sentence which has a 20yard range.
