Ret is still in a laughable state

Classes Paladin
1

The 20% buff to FV is barely noticeable at all, and yet Ret is still fighting for its life being one of the bottom melee DPS specs this patch.

Call me crazy, Classes that only have 1 DPS spec should never be in at the very bottom of barrel. In saying that, im not preaching that Ret should be at the very tippity top but at the very least middle of the pack to the higher bit of middle of the pack.

Also, I know that this isnt going to be seen by any devs. For the love of god can we please get a worthwhile tier set bonus…

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2

I agree with you, I honestly thought myself that the 20% buff sounded great. Looking at the numbers on bosses, single target in +12s it’s pretty ugly. Aoe we are fine, but having to keep 100% uptime on divine hammer in single target is A. not easy, and B. not even going to get you out of the bottom dps spot. There are no talent options that we can chose to help us either, this is a flat-out buff issue.

It’s a crying shame, it really is. Oh well, we can watch other classes get picked over us at higher end keys.

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3

For the past 3 raid tiers with my guild I’ve been brought to raid for mythic prog even though the devo aura was already filled. This is the first tier where I’m not getting to see much action unfortunately, the worst part about it is that its not a player issue and solely because of how poorly Ret is performing right now.

I really wish I had the time to pick up a 2nd character but between work and learning to master whatever class would just drain me. Just gotta pray for more buffs hopefully

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4

Only did skirmishes and bgs yesterday and to be completely honest I felt no difference.

5

Counterpoint: I’m running with ret palas that are consistently outdamaging my heroic purple parses by spamming one button.

Gut the tierset first then talk buffs. Infinite resources was a stupid idea.

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The more I play, the less I like this. One of the reasons I actually enjoyed ret a lot was because I didn’t have to deal with uptime mechanics. It’s just too annoying to deal with. Mechanics with forced downtime, RP in dungeons, etc, it just breaks up everything.

Ret needs some more work, and the hero spec design is a big part of its problems right now.

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7

Nah fam breath of syndragosa is peak gameplay acording to the pala “mains”

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8

You keep saying this, but the mains posts does not reflect this.

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I am not gonna screenshot or look up every single response saying how great amazing and fun divine hammer is. Usually the same suspects too

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I only know of one person saying it’s a must pick for templar while the others reviles the bug it has and talks it down.

I think you need to re-read some of their posts.

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Oh yes nust be true right this is why the paladin communities across all platforms are asking for its removal right? Oh wait…

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Most on here is asking for it not to interact with EH the way it is so it’s not a must have for templar.

Most is also asking for rg to be removed also.

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You’re conflating 2 things.

DH is not a strong ability nor is it specifically liked.

What those communities “like” about DH is the underlying concept of needing to manage your ressources to extract the maximum potential out of the spec in opposition to pressing any buttons in any order and seeing marginal changes in the output.

They aren’t asking for the removal because that’s the only thing on which you can truly distinguish someone who pay attention from someone who just mindlessly hit whatever.

They aren’t that far from you, conceptually, of just wanting spenders to matters.
You want them to matter by being stronger and going further on that point, we come to the realisation that HP would need to be toned down so that first and foremost, ressources matters.

Those 2 go hand in hand.
It’s just that it’s not necessarily true going backward, you don’t inherently need spenders to matter for ressource to matter if the spenders become the ressource.

Which they did with the new DH and in some way with Templar as a provider of Light Deliverance stacks.

Hard to tell either way, an important part of Ret damage in ST now comes from the ability to stay in melee and benefit from the interaction of EH with DH.

There’s a bunch of fights where you have to move away from boss for relatively long times and where DH just drop entirely as a result.

As a reference (on patcherk 1 boss 5min), if I was to not take DH on my character with the recommended raid build from WoWhead and take EL as a replacement, I’m looking at a 8-9% loss in damage…

And patcherk is the best scenario you can expect for DH, yet none of the fight are Patchwerks…

Soo in hypothetical, Ret might be doing similar damage to other specs but it doesn’t translate in practice.

It just re-enforce the idea that the damage should come from an inherent good management of our ressource rather than rely on a “happy mistake” that only really benefits one of the Hero specs.

We’ve been pigeonholed into an ability that, by all account, should be an AoE niche, rather than make meaningful change to this “spamming spenders” gameplay.

I personally think it’s wrong, I support the idea that managing your ressource should be important but I think this isn’t the right vehicle and I resent that they choose the lazy/easy way out of just going forward with something that was clearly unintended to begin with.

4 Likes
14

Ret has weirdly dropped a few spots on Warcraftlogs after the buff. Although this is probably just because there aren’t enough post-buff logs yet.

I thought you were better than that.

Jokes aside, I actually kinda like it (and Breath of Sindy), but I also wouldn’t complain if it went away. It’s just another CD we press with all the other CD’s. It is weird that we use what is a AoE CD for single target dps though.

TL:DR - nerf passive/supplementary damage, buff spenders.

That said, I don’t think it is as simple as just removing it and buffing Ret by a flat 10% or whatever. Since that would cause some issues with our AoE potential. It’s not going to make us broken or anything, but certainly put us in the crosshair for nerfs. But putting all that damage into FV is also not possible since then it will shoot past DS (on 2 targets), effectively killing neutering our cleave potential.

What should happen is that Ret’s enormous amount of passive and “supplementary” damage needs to come down a bit. A quick sim shows about 25.1% (excluding Auto Attacks) of my total damage is just passive procs that happen while I do other things. But toning that down would also require a bit of work, more than Blizzard are willing to put in, I would bet.

But, for example, what they could do is to slightly rework our Mastery and Divine Arbiter to both directly increase the damage of spenders by an amount. Something like this.

[Divine Arbiter]
Holystrike damaging abilities grants you a stack of Divine Arbiter.

At 25 stacks your next damaging Holy Power spending ability causes an additional (375% AP) Holystrike damage to your primary target and (75% AP) Holystrike damage to enemies within 6 yards.

So when you have built up to DA, your next FV does and extra ~500-600k damage. Not through a seperate damage event. But the tooltip going from 400k to 1m. Of course it would have to be rebalanced since it can now effectively crit and benefit from modifers. Which it currently cannot.

Mastery procs would work the same way, causing your spenders to deal an extra ~120% AP damage. Might have to be split in DS’s case.

But this would also allow us to tone down all of Ret’s myrriad of spender modifiers (with our current set bonus, Ret can reach a ludicrous 3.75x damage modifier on FV) and let them hit hard without the need for 4-5 overlapping damage buffs.

Wall of text over.

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15

I agree, Ret is still quite weak compared to other specs. Lvladin just posted a you tube video on Ret, he has earned many high ranking titles as Ret over the years and one for last season. He praised the changes and talked about the damage rotation while he demonstrated it, but his damage meter was on. What we see from the damage meter is Ret is capable of about half of the DPS done by other specs.

With how easily Ret is kited and how much CC it can recieve in pvp, it’s damage potential should be greater if it can connect to it’s target, otherwise we are better off playing a ranged spec and doing twice Rets damage.

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Half? I don’t know what rotation he was doing, but there is no world in which retribution does 50% the dps of another damage spec.

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Fifty percent of the burst damage capable by my marksmanship hunter is certifiable, and he’s an expert at his spec, and I am only a intermediate at both of our specs. Retribution is tuned low still. That’s not up for debate, that is a fact.

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That word wasn’t in the first post

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Yeah our single target dps is dog water, aoe is great but single target its awful lucky to do 1.8 to 2 million where other classes are pulling 3 to 4 million single target, its just awful people always saying your garbage etc etc such a nice community you know lol.

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You’re crazy lol I’m having a blast, the buffs feel great! So I don’t get what you’re complaining about.

You think Ret isn’t even middle of the pack!? Yeah you’re crazy lol

And our tier set is good! What do you mean :joy: