So much hate on Ret right now ya’ll need to chill! Don’t listen to the sweaty neckbeards tier list that is literally going to change all the time. A good ret paladin brings a ton to a group, crazy off heals, massive aoe, good single target which can be amazing depending on procs and gear. Plus the few abilities like LoH and BoP that can be wipe savers. If you like Ret play it! It’s important to learn as much as you can and practice with ret though. It is easy to learn but hard to master. Once you can perfectly manage all of your buffs like Dusk and Dawn and properly manage your builders so you have no holy power waste, you will be a beast.
Damage isn’t Ret’s issue, neither is it’s ability to off-heal (at significant cost to it’s output).
Ret isn’t good, most people just don’t understand what it’s actual issues are.
As long as Ret does above average damage it will be “fine”, but as soon as it does average or below average damage all of it loses all that compensates for the issues of the spec.
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To each their own. Some people have their reasons for not liking it and that’s fine and sure it could use some work in some areas I agree. I’m just saying that ret can be really good right now despite all the backlash and is worth playing. Just requires you to really know the spec. Hopefully they address some of the issues people are complaining about for sure. I just wouldn’t call it bad right now. All they need to do is replace a few talents. I think a Ret specific party buff like say Blessing of Kings and it increases everyone’s haste by 5% would take ret a long way in terms of raid viability.
Ret gets three shot by under geared people in PvP your opinion is irrelevant and wrong
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Knowledge of the spec isn’t going to change things like it’s lack of generalised utility, the fact we are heavily encouraged to use an aura that doesn’t benefit our group, the lack of options in our class tree due to an over abundance of throughput talents especially at the lower end, nor the fact that what poor utility and defensives we do have are actually used as dps cooldowns due to toxic design (Recompense/SoV).
Just to state a few issues.
Sure for most people who just play the game it’s a non-issue, but to Ret mains that are more nuanced in the spec they are significant issues.
Especially due to the absolute lack of communication and development during DF’s design changes.
It’s not going to affect most casual players, but that’s a bit different than it being good in my opinion.
Heavy agree. Anything that allows us to finally bring something to the group again, especially over Holy and Prot would be a good start, at least in terms of group desirability.
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Well this isn’t a PvP post this is generally on Ret in PvE. Sorry to hear you’re having such a bad time but good luck.
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But wow is one game, how ret is in one format or mode also helps/harms others
Yeah the aura’s are lackluster for sure, maybe combine Devo and Ret aura plus add a party buff into it would be excellent. Think mainly the paladin tree needs work for us it doesn’t benefit ret barely at all. Defense could definitely use a buff I agree. Definitely wish Blizzard would be more vocal about Ret it seems to get the least bit of communication when so many people love paladin and playing Ret in general and there’s so much feedback for them. I plan to just push through it right now with hopes that we will get buffed in the near future even if it’s less desirable in higher end content.
The issue is not Ret’s throughput, it never has been and never will be to anyone who actually follows the conversation. The issue is we rely too heavily on it.
There has been a fairly consistent expansion arc where Ret starts off in a really good spot, but as the expansion progresses is left unattended as it slides down the charts. At no point will that really prevent people from pursuing their goals, but what it will do is perpetuate a stigma against the class specc. We lack so much in the way of utility, mobility, and defensives that we are the least mobile, most easily killable, and least useful specc amongst all our perspective competition for raid spots, not even considering inter-specc competition.
The hope is that damage and healing alone will carry us through the entire expac but that literally relies on Blizzard enabling us to hold our position. If we ever get too ahead of the pack, kill players too easily, or just generally inconvenience any flavor-of-the-month reroller who doesn’t want a challenge we’re in trouble. One well placed nerf and we drop.
We needed changes to the core of our class. We needed our concerns to be heard so that the class functioned well despite how our numbers fluctuate. What we got was a band-aid spell that does nothing to differentiate Ret from Holy or Prot, let alone any other class with a battle rez, while subsequently having our mobility nerfed. Our defensives are, I concede, marginally better but not nearly better enough to keep us alive to any meaningful extent.
Long story short, we saw the clouds drifting over the horizon and Blizz has still yet to provide us an umbrella. Whether or not we’re overreacting has yet to be seen.
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Ret damage is fine. In PvE we just need more mobility and survivability. Somehow Ret got stuck with both the worst mobility and survivability kit of all melee classes.
Even before adding up all the defensive and mobility spells of the other classes, just look at overall logs on who dies the most in PvE content. Hint: Ret Paladins do.
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Ret is also slow, so you’re often late to the party if the tank is anything but another Paladin or a DK.
Off-healing has been seriously hit by the buff to player health and mob damage and even with Healing Hands WoG heals often do next to nothing and FoL, even with Selfless Healer, is hopeless.
Ret is still as squishy as anything, and Ret’s will to continue to die like flies from being slow and squishy.
While Ret does have a certain amount of utility in 5-mans, in raids it’s all brought in as-good or better versions by a Holy or Protection Paladin - and you’ll be bringing a Holy anyway if your raid group is serious.
Player complaints and suggestions throughout the beta were focussed on these things and poor talent tree design, not on damage output.
And if Ret’s scaling follows the trends of the past three expansions (and as the design is fundamentally the same, it most likely will) that means it’ll be ‘fine’ in the first season/tier and will fall back more and more with each succeeding season/tier.
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Comical.
/10char
Sov wasn’t scaled it gets deleted in 2 hits that’s hardly a defensive
There are speed enchants for boots and cloaks so make sure you ret pallies grab em!
does it compete with throughput?
I appreciate the positivity. I try to embody this as a dedicated ret paladin, but at the same time I cannot ignore the fact that our trees and overall design could really use some attention.
There’s just so much wrong. At least two of our capstones are doa by virtue of positioning, tuning, or gating. There’s way too many rng chip damage nodes. Etc.
Think about what could be in the trees instead. There could have been a fully functional expurgation build, a one min build with Execution Sentence (they all but destroyed this talent and the modifying nodes seem to be dps losses at this point), and more. These builds are not fully transformative, they are clogged with meager nodes that do around 1-2 percent of your damage instead of supporting gameplay defining builds.
When you combine this with laughable defensive capabilities and shameful mobility (both on gcd still), and you have a real recipe for frustration.
Ret needs love.
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I think the ret rotation is pretty bloated and I agree with pretty much everything Erriden said in the comment above this one.
We have more spenders than builders and that doesn’t feel cash money to me.
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yes. all this coming from a lvl 10 mage.
ok bro
i havent even bothered with my pally becasue my fury warrior just slaps so hard rn
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not to mention the whole theory behind the new talent trees. “we dont want to pigdeon hole players into one build”
and what do they do? they pigdeon hole us into a lame consecration build by making it a good portion of the talent tree, and make it your tier set bonus!
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Respectfully disagree.
We’re button bloated.
Random HOPO generation actively works against Dusk and Dawn.
Mobility was nerfed from SL and defensive choice they gave us is hardly a choice.
They effectively added 3 keybind to the main damage rotation which in itself might not look problematic until you have to also find space for all the blessing, offheals and our new brez.
Last I counted there were like 26 buttons you might actively want to use in combat.
This is insane.
Here is the list I made.
27 if you want to use Seraphim…
5 Likes