Every dps class have one o more spell than hit easily over 200k or even 300k meanwhile rets damage feels like it was still in last pacht, it´s anoying how low our dps feels comapare withe other class tha can basically run over and get a kill pressing one button.
6 Likes
FV regularly crits over 300k, ES hits over 1m sometimes. Final reckoning crits over 200k, I agree our damage isn’t ideal especially since we have to make such a big sacrifice to go from ST to AoE and vice versa, but we’re not stuck in last patch.
I do think we could use another rework, the ST loss in our m+ build is enormous. A DH literally outdpses our ST build in ST in its m+ build.
Several classes don’t have to forego much at all switching from single target to AoE. You could give us chaotic diversion (passive dh talent DoT) baseline and we would still under perform on boss damage in m+.
We need a mastery buff. Our mastery scales terribly, compare it to havoc that has a similar mastery yet it scales almost twice as much and remove talents in our tree that do nothing but make our spells cleave. These talents makes it impossible to tune us properly. In single target these talents are basically dead.
Our AoE is good when we’re AoEing and our ST is alright when STing, but when any sort of hybrid fight is introduced with long ST phases and adds that need to be bursted down we fall flat on our face.
5 Likes
They just need to buff Final Verdict by 6-8% and I think we would be fine. Or buff it by 10-12% but reduce Final Reckoning initial damage by 10%
1 Like
gotta be realllly specific on the content your doing cause alot of this raid is cleave and aoe. ret cant do cleave and aoe like other specs. keep in mind in st encoutners like nym smolderon and volcross we blast with the lego axe since we are the 4th best simming st spec in the game.
its just alot of the bulk of damage this raid is from important cleave (gnarlroot adds, ignira spears, council, larry trents, tindrel roots, and fyrakk ghosts
so simply “buffing” rets damage isnt a good solution for something thats clearly a talent design issue. buffing fv by x% would be just lead to us using FV in 3 target encounters which again means nothing is solved.
nor buffing mastery will fix the issue since its not that behind to begin with. it wouldnt make us “scale” better, since we’re still and historically will be a Ilvl> all stats even spec.
3 Likes
Sure, in raid there is a design problem for paladin damage profile, but in M+ they are struggling from extremely poor ST in the only build that does good AoE damage.
TBH i’d prefer that at this point this introduce independent M+ and raid talents. It’s sad that the tuning they are doing is for raid, and that is not what the majority of gameplay time is going to.
PvP ret max damage Fv crit it´s always around 130k more and less, judgment 100k, hamer of wrath the same, boj 70k, etc etc, when u compare that whit any of other dps class in game rn ( excet war) the difference is huge, almost every class can do more than 250k with more than a single spell and kill u in a global, thats is the difference, ret burst damage is falling behind of other dps spects. People are not afraid of wings any more cause.
1 Like
It’s the same problem affecting Raid and M+.
Both build suffer the same tradeoff losses.
Buffing FV straight up just exacerbate the ST build strength even more.
What they need to do is strengthen the AoE talent ST output and vice versa for ST build.
For example:
- Blessed champion could make CS and Jugdgement do more damage depending on how many target they hit below 3/5 (not a 1:1 transfer but maybe like the 50%/100% when down to 1 target)
- They could make it so Searing light doesn’t trigger its CD if it hits 1 target. (and/or make it so it triggers from the DoTs so that it just triggers more often on ST)
- They could add FV to burning crusade or make it give a DoT radiant component without changing it’s damage type so that its synergize with penitence.
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that can be fixed easily by make stuff like burning crusade effect fv. again its the same issue but with different talents. the over speration of st and aoe effects both st and m+ builds
this is why i highlighted “what content you do” cause im talking strictly pve. pvp can be tuned separately so im not worried about it at all
Are you talking about PVP or PVE? If you’re talking about PVE, then you’re wrong. And even if you were right, who cares? The big numbers pressing one spell doesn’t matter in raid or M+.
i am talking about pvp
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In pvp it is made worse by way of 80% nerfs to our previously best pvp talents and pvp specific nerfs to a bunch of abilities. Ret doesnt scale well since they nerfed mastery a while back. Gaining 10 item levels as Ret actually feels like gaining a couple. Ret also doesnt get a mortal strike so if who you hit takes 500k damage in 3 seconds without a mortal strike on them from your teammate, they top their own health back up or have a healer do it for them easily. Make friends with one of the 8 specs with a mortal strike so your damage does something.
2 Likes
Indeed u dont feels the differences between honor gear and conquest, u still hit almost the same. I think mastery nefs should be reversed, because rets are really falling behind.
2 Likes
(For PVP)-And apparently we’re stuck with season 3 tier set again, pray for less tier set bugs/nerfs going forward or it may be a real sad S4.
2 Likes
ya, winter is here and looks like gonna last long for us. Sad times to play rets. Go and see the last palumor video about one shots, rest is one of the last on the list when back in the days when swifty made those videos rets was always in top of the list. sad sad
1 Like
Scratching my neck waiting for one of those three percent buffs
My favorite thing about my pally is having massive burst for every pack. Boss damage is okay don’t think they are in a horrible spot atm. Everyone has their day in the sun pally was OP a couple patches ago they’ll come back around.
No, they weren’t. Not Ret.
They were for 2 weeks after the rework and then they got rightfully nerfed back down to an “ok” state (some may argue too much but that’s not the point).
They weren’t “meta” afterward for that season like DH is for example.
I don’t think they are/were bad though, but you’re mischaracterizing how they actually were.
I feel that for PVP this particular issue might be the most crucial oversight that came with the paradigm shift on Ret profile and philosophy.
Pre-rework Ret relied on “overwhelming damage” on people getting caught to get their “kill pressure”.
This profile created a bunch of issue both for PVE and PVP.
Now they smoothed this burst a little and it really solved a bunch of problems the spec had BUT , as you point out, it leaves Ret with damage that doesn’t “stick” in PVP and that is smooth enough to be healed through essentially significantly impacting their “kill pressure”.
2 Likes
Idk what game you were playing but I was absolutely blasting dungeons, well after the rework. Every minute just nuking.
That’s anecdotal to you.
Ret was not Meta nor was it “OP” and that’s a fact.
And even if something IS meta, it doesn’t even make it “OP” necessarily.
Meta specs were:
- Guardian Druid
- Holy Paladin
- Shadow Priest
- Fire mage
- Augmentation Evoker
The first Ret we can see in the top keys done is in a 31 Neltharus which is the 496th run overall.
For context, the Ret who did it is Qrva, he was the highest rated Ret in Season 2 and even amongst Rets he was 128 io above the second highest.
He’s the only Ret above 3.8k and 1 of 4 above 3.7k and that places him at 151th place on all DPS.
WoW logs also shows that for season 2 Ret was at best upper mid.
Again, the spec was a good one to play, it was doing well.
But it was not “OP” and it doesn’t qualify as having “it’s time in the sun” imo.
3 Likes
Honestly meta gamers are a joke any spec/class can push well higher then a 20 if they are good at the class.