I know this sounds like a harsh complaint, but I can’t figure out a better way to describe my frustration… it feels like with the new talent trees buttons were added just for the sake of adding them… as a whole the trees feel half baked and not thoroughly thought out. why does a spec need 12 buttons for a single target rotation to be “correct” or optimized? why does one spec get perfect CD synchronization but others are left a scattered mess? there is no consistency to play patterns across specs… you are either one of the lucky ones that can do both forms of primary dps (aoe + single target) or you’re just not what correct for viability… it sucks to see that players can’t play what they want, HOW they want and be effective, it’s a game for crying out loud, and games should be fun… not convoluded to the point that you want to find something else to spend your time on.
yeah dude i completely agree. Its super super frustrating having classes like Hunter, Or Warrior. or DK , or Demon hunter with literally only 3-4 solid buttons to push or have to worry about, then you’re emergency cooldowns. that’s it.
play a druid, priest, paladin, and your hands will be so tired it’s insane
Too many spenders that make everything rather clunky, not enough actual abilities.
We have 2 spenders, definitely not the problem, Seraphim is one problem, it bloats the CD rotation, was much better having big uptime during Season 3&4 just from tier and using Divine Purpose, DP is just more fun and doesn’t bloat.
Consecration, while it’s doing good damage, doesn’t generate HP, is a static ground effect, and is on the GCD, if this ability could just macro’d in, if it wasn’t on the GCD you could just macro it and it would be wonderful.
Exorcism is a huge culprit, damage is trash, only works with Consecration, doesn’t generate HP. Easily fix this by just making it a passive that dots things you hit with HP spenders while in Consecration, if they still want that interaction.
Yeah, button bloat is unreal for ret. I’ve banned Exorcism for now from my action bars because of how mediocre the spell is. This somehow alleviated the problem. There should definitely be less active abilities in our tree and if they are active they should mostly replace baseline abilities. Many people here suggested that Exo for example could replace Blade of Justice. Things like Justicar’s Vengeance should be passives added to the corresponding spell.
Another thing I noticed: I started levelling my Frost DK yesterday. Man, what a difference. I have way less buttons, things die a lot faster (DK is ilevel 252, paladin was ilevel 275 when I started levelling him) and most important: The DK doesn’t even loose health. Without using any def cds. It is astounding how weak ret’s passive suvivability is in that regard.
Well, considering Seraphim does cost hopo I will consider it a spender. Then you have TV/FV/JV, Radiant Decree and Exe sentence.
At this point Seraphim shouldn’t cost hopo.
Nor execution sentence.
I would be fine with seraphim either becoming a 1 min cd with no hp cost.
Or
A buff that you can keep up by spending 3 hp and no cd.
I do want to comment on your one Frost DK comment however.
I think you and i are literally the same in that our experiences were the same, i switched to a Frost DK just to try it out and the first few levels were absolutly INSANE. But once i hit level 67 the scaling did something weird its like it completely dropped off. You can hardly kill anything at all without worry of dying.
Keep leveling yours and try it out and you’ll see what i mean
Button bloat is what is keeping me from overall maining paladin. I want to love and play Ret but geezus the rotation seraphim, divine toll, and final reckoning… I hate the mechanic of final reckoning being a skill shot
If the class was a bit more straight forward I would probably make an honest effort into trying to gear and play all 3 specs…but nope not going to go through all that effort on a class that has two specs that are undertuned with no real QOL in sight.
I think of Seraphim more like CD but you’re right it is a spender also, all those other things are just options, JV isn’t good once you get 4pc, ES is really bad also, and RD while a spender is actually pretty damn good. Now if we had to take ES, JV, and RD life would just be a hell hole.
Seraphim and ES just shouldn’t be on GCD, they are more CDs than spenders and being on the GCD makes your rotation feel especially trash when you have to use them.
Yes please.
I’ll very much pass on Inquisition 2.0
Macro it so it drop on your position.
/cast [@player] Final Reckoning
It’s better than Seraphim 1.0, it sucks as a CD and it especially sucks with Crusade. If it lasted 45 sec per HP it would infinitely be better than it is now.
Idk man I rather like the idea, especially if exorcism and consecration were not part of the rotation it wouldn’t be too bad.
Mord already had the right idea on his first bullet point is all I’m saying.
1min CD no HoPo cost.
Hell give it the SEF monk treatment.
1.5 min CD and 2 charges.
Only playing ret at the moment so I’m not up to date: is there any other spec that has so many incremental damage buffs? I mean: AW, Sera, FR, Judgment buff (also from DT), Vanguard’s Momentum, Seal of the Crusader (I am sure I missed something).
I didn’t talent into Sera because I can’t stand my bars being even more full and I didn’t like the ability from the start being a spender plus having an absolute desynchronized cooldown of 45s while other classes can line up their cds just fine.
What I do is make a basic /use macro for Crusade and Seraphim so I only use 1 button for them. Also it’s ok to not take exorcism. Even though it used in many meta builds you don’t really have to take it if you don’t want to. The impact on dps should be very minimal if you even notice it at all. If you haven’t tried this give it a go it may help ease the amount of button you use.
Ret Paladin is INCREDIBLY bloated. 15 standard damage abilites and that number can go upwards to 23 if you choose some talents. It is waaay too much. It is extremely concerning.
I made a thread recently about that as well as you can see here: Ret Paladin have way too many damage abilities and it is hurting the spec
Too bad we don’t have anyone at Blizzard that gives a flying f*** about Ret Paladin.
Fun fact. For MY character
Exorcism was actually a DPS loss on 5 targets last time I did simulations (not by much).
I was at like 134k without and 133k with.
A great example of how meta builds aren’t necessarily always the best to use for everyone. As Benmarch says it’s a good idea to sim now and then to help make talent choices.
May I point out that this “button bloat” is not related to actual abilities but mostly just dmg amps.
Once you take the dmg amps and awkward buttons like Crusader Strike out the spec actually has no buttons.