Our Tier set seems almost worthless. Final bosses in raid involves constant moving and even with riptide on CD doesn’t seem very helpful. Wondering if just going with gear with better stats would be better than sticking with tier? Any high end raiders have any ideas/hints?
absolutely not
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I currently only see 2 to 4% healing from tidewaters two piece Doesn’t seem to be a way to track the success of the 4 piece swelling rain. With high movement bosses I am lucky to hit 2 or 3 riptides before placing HR resulting in 3 percentage overall healing increase for 6 seconds, with only a single healing wave/healing surge for 10% OR chain heal hitting for 10% more.
If I can get a full crit/vers set I might just try it out for giggles.
I just miss our T 28 and 29 tier.
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I literally dont want to take off my old tier 2 pc because of this reason. Why would i ever want to give up almost a permanent 10% crit buff for the new set?
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I know. It would seem 10% crit would be much better the tidewaters/swelling rain. And how close can you get to 10% more crit with loosing the mastery and haste from the current tier.
I haven’t played around with primal tide core for more riptides out, but high tide is too good.
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I am just saying. Every single theorycrafter and high end resto shaman says to use it.
Try out whatever you want, though. You just asked what high end raiders believe. They overwhelmingly believe tier > non tier with slightly better stats.
Most of my overhealing comes from healing rain. So i dont see the benefit of people standing in it recieving more healing when i can just have raw throughput healing from the crit.
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I did an experiment a few days ago where I put my old tier from last season on and raided heroic. I lost about 6 ilvls overall but my healing was either the same or better. I beat another 441 resto shaman with the new 4 piece by a mile and all of the other healers I was beating were at least 10 ilvls above me. This tier set is awful from this season.
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Useless in PvP too.
I see in leader boards, everyone does wear the new tier set. However, how much of it is due to having 441/447 ilvl gear vs old tier set 25 ilvls lower.
I wonder if they have more success in getting tidewaters to do more than a couple of percentages of healing? Any high end shamans out their want to help their lowly raiding cousins a little advice? How much do you think the tier bonuses helping out?
So every guide, theorycrafter, data point, etc all says “use the tier set”.
But the response is “but should we reeeaaalllyy use it?” I dont know if I can trust that. Feels like you are just going to continue looking for additional input until someone agrees with you.
If non tier set pieces were better than tier set, then those leader boards, etc would have people with high ilvl non tier pieces. Because those people chasing leader board rankings? They’d farm the non tier gear.
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I am looking for someone to agree or not agree. Just because we have a tier set doesn’t mean it’s good and Blizzard should continue to ignore the fact it may have little impact. (even compared to the ele/enhance that I find fun and makes for some interesting play) burst)
You can be pushing over 3000 on mythic, but still have an opinion on tier set usefulness. Yes, you can and should use it according to “theory craft, data point, etc” because it’s the best we got. But try to heal range dps on a constant moving raid boss. On these bosses we might want to go with Zappanee approach.
I just dont know what else to tell you.
Because once again, every single person out there I can find says to use it. Your response is “ok, but anyone else say not to?”
For m+ its absolutely great. For raiding? Yeah, it has less value (compared to m+) but considering that tier is slotted really well secondary-wise for resto you are not going to be looking to use non tier pieces for slightly better secondaries.
You are more than welcome to try not using it. But feelycraft wont ever beat out actual numbers. You wouldnt be able to show that its better in raid by looking at a few healing parses. And the numbers, from every source I can find…says to use tier. Even in raid. Even with range dps. Even with a moving boss.
Missing the point of the questions to high end shamans. Let me ask in a different way.
If you are a high end raider, and able to keep up with your druid and other healers, do you have any tips for how to use the current tier for better success? Do your real in game numbers show the tier performing well? Or, are you using other strategies other than tier to keep up?
Go to Warcraft logs and filter it for heroic, resto shaman, and just United States. You will see some of those top ranked shaman got their points from healing with either 4 piece from old tier or 2/2 tier. The majority are wearing the new tier for those fights, but ideally we should not have any in the top 10 that got there wearing old tier. I don’t look at mythic logs because I don’t raid mythic anymore and I am assuming that the ilvl the new tier provides would be more important on mythic since I felt rather squishy on the last couple of bosses in heroic wearing old tier. To be honest, the new tier takes a lot more thought to use efficiently. You have to make sure you have a max amount of people with your riptide on them before dropping healing rain. There is a weak aura that tracks how many riptides you have out and what the lowest duration is, so that may be useful to get the full effect of the new tier. I like to do my own testing, so I will be using the WA this weekend to see if it improves my numbers.
But I’ve answered it as you have stated. You asked if tier is worthless. You asked if it was better to use non tier.
Tier isnt a “strategy”. It doesnt effect your healing rotation.
You are still spreading riptides to who needs it. You are still putting healing rain down, on cooldown, where it is most beneficial. You still keep riptides out on max targets on cooldown. You did this before tier. Tier doesnt change it.
Do you want max riptides down before healing rain? Yes. But that should already be happening regardless of tier. You wanted to have max riptides down before this season/raid tier started.
Put down the copium man. The tier stinks. Especially evident in sanguine week when the tank has to kite packs of mobs in circles.
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Aston, you’re not answering anything. Yes, people are wearing their tier in high level raids and mythic. Yes, it has higher ilvl, intellect, etc. Blizzard is all great and wonderful. Get past that.
It doesn’t mean that we should focus on maximizing our current tier bonus if it is crap.
Tier is not set and forget. Some tier is better than others. We have always had strategy to use our tier. People have shared their thoughts on the effectiveness and best rotation/strategy to maximize tier since the start of time. It’s what YouTube streamers live off of.
You can’t just put out riptides and healing rain as we have in the past. I have always seen druids and shaman putting down healing circles at start of fights. We put healing rain and riptide on those who need it.
This tier requires to place healing rain on those we just riptided and probably don’t need it. You are losing benefit of healing rain as it over heals. Have you not been in a fight where the range are getting hit by aoe and need riptides and healing wave/healing surge top offs? And then is very low chance hitting all those range with same people with a healing rain? Last tier was straight crit, we didn’t need to line up healing rain on top of riptide peeps.
It’s clear our tier is bad. So,
Do we need to strictly make sure to hit the maximum number of riptides with healing rain even if they don’t need it; just to get a six second buff? Some may say yes, some might say don’t, do this instead.
What are other resto shamans experiencing? If their experience was bad, but it’s better now, what did they do different? I would love to hear it, so I can become better. Others might want to get the same ideas/hints/tips (which was my question in first post)
Just wear tier “cause” and just play as norm is not an answer.
“resto tier worthless”? I answered that. It was the title of the thread.
I answered that.
Can you expand on this. How do you play differently with our current tier set.
What is your strategy?
I dont care about previous tier sets. That does not apply to the current conversation.
Yes you can.
Literally what I said.
Ok. And I said dont do this. You are saying to change and do less healing. I am saying do more healing by not changing it.
Just because you are using it wrong doesnt mean it is bad.
Keep riptides on cooldown. Keep healing rain on cooldown. Place healing rain where it heals most people.
I am saying to wear it because its the best option. I am saying that you are over thinking it by allowing it to change your rotation in a drastic manner.
You say you want to hear experiences, but when you do and they dont align with your initial message “resto tier = worthless” you are continuing to dismiss it.
I disagree about the rotation changing. Before, if people weren’t stacked, I held off on healing rain since it is a big chunk of mana to use ineffectively. The way the new set works is that the people who have your riptide on them don’t have to be in your healing rain in order for the benefit to be applied. So it forces you to use healing rain when sometimes you would hold off.
If you look at the resto shaman tier guide on wowhead, Niseko (the resto shaman who wrote the guide) actually says it is the weakest of all the healer tier sets. They don’t go as far to say that it is garbage, but does say that previous tier was much better. The tier set seems to go directly against how we focused on chain heal talents last season, but the effects don’t seem to be enough to go totally into riptide talents since chain heal is still so strong.
All that being said, we CAN still be very strong healers. But it’s not going to be because of this tier set.