Resto druid in the war within has lost all the fun factor. I love the fantasy of druid, I like the HoT playstyle in the past. Something is different in The War Within.
Fundamentally I think the issue stems from low sustain exacerbated by limited playstyles, along with bad choices regarding the capstone talents, and changes to the damage profiles. Resto Druid output is only effective in the flourish or ToL windows, without those it feels like I am doing nothing.
Itâs a lot of effort to plan and execute these windows. So I feel like I am doing much more work than my shaman or evoker would, but the reward is not worth it, it just gets me on even terms with the other healers. Ramp up time is just too much. Regowth does nothing without 3 other HoTs. In an emergency if someone is not âreadyâ for you to heal them, your going to spend 3-4 globals on them and that simply does not feel great. Especially when my shaman can surge bomb them for 2.5-3million in a single global.
How to fix it? Iâm not sure really. Keeper of the Grove incentivizes holding your Grove Guards. for your burst window, maybe redesign that? The hero talents are really passive for druid compared to others anyway. Move flourish off the choice node with photosynthesis? Buff base rejuv healing balanced with other nerfs maybe to bloom, effflo? Interested to hear what others have to say.
It seriously feels like disc priest. you are spreading your rejuv-tonements, and then bursting in your Tree of Shadow Covenant windows.
So the ramp is the same as its always been. Sustain is fine once you get the ramp out of the way. The only thing thats off is you started your Druid in seasons with inflated stats and in the easiest seasons to date. Now youre starting over with a lack of stats which really compounds the issues youre having.
I think that was to compensate for the power creep of the new expansion.
Going from 100k HP to 5million HP, 15% mastery would be way more effective on the latter, so they nerfed it to like 6%? Just guessing, but yeah it donât feel great. Think it needs some balancing out
Grove Guardians are only on top because tier sets were based around that ability. Regrowth is still your next highest healing ability. It still plays the same way. Just feels different
Resto being stuck spamming regrowth has been a thing(complaint) since at least shadowlands in keys; with the first major mastery nerf and the damage profiles being changed to a burstier focus.
It got worse in DF with rejuv being reduced to pure mastery fodder and regrowth spam being off the charts in pugs, but since the lifebloom build was killing it in organzied keys and raid cooldowns were great the first half of the expac, most people looked past it to target other problems; like grove guardian reliance, tranq being useless, and later the flourish nerfs.
I dont think the playstyles going away unless they change damage profiles again, and since this is what blizz considers a sustain focused heal meta (based on their beta commentary) i dont think itll ever get much better without an overhaul to the games systems or the spec.
I think there is a pretty good argument in order to have sustain, rejuv has to be buffed.
Rejuv + Germ as mastery fodder for regrowth spam is not sustain focused. Its burst window focused. So it goes against their lower spike, sustain focused gameplay argument.
So buff rejuv, wild growth, regrowth ticks lower regrowth ST heal component, and bring back Luxuriant Soil free rejuvs. Spending 2 globals on rejuv just so you can start healing someone effectively is bad. Priests and Shamans have massive ST single global bombs.
Also the flourish choice node is too punishing, the entire spec revolves around Flourish and its CD.
I think the main problem is all your hots just serve to buff Regrowth atm. Literally everything you do is just to buff up for casting Regrowth which is kind of a piss playstyle.
As for their Hero talent fantasy, I think Wildstalker is pretty good but for Keeper of the Grove I literally do not feel the power of my Treants at all when I have them out. I absolutely can feel the power of Wildstalker, at least in keys. I see the Symbiotic Growths, anyone with one takes a bunch of healing from me and my hots, they buff my mastery, itâs all dandy.
In KotG I put 2 or 3 Trees out and Iâm like âDid I cast it? Is it doing anything?â Which I think is caused by Dream Blooms only having an 8 yard range so frequently they absolutely nothing outside of Raid because most groups are not constantly 8 yard stacked, and then the Treants themselves just have been nerfed by like 80% since DF you just cannot feel any power increase while theyâre out. They buff Rejuv, LB, and Efflo but all 3 do next to no healing. All of your healing as previously stated comes from Regrowth so without Trees buffing Regrowth you just do not feel any power when theyâre out. Both problems are band-aided by making them also buff Regrowth/Wild Growth or increasing the power of your Trees specifically for KotG.
And yeah, I agree completely. I think the main issue is I feel like I spend 90% of my globals trying to maintain my HoTs. Itâs like playing whack-a-mole. By the time I got out the ones I wanted the first one is expiring. And you have to have them out even if thereâs no damage because you need the mastery stacks to already be there for when you do need healing, and once again for them to buff your Regrowth either via Rejuv, Lifebloom or whatever.
Meanwhile on my Mistweaver itâs like âOh damage is coming up? Iâll take 3 seconds to cast 3 Enveloping Mists and Iâm done.â And thatâs it. Thatâs all you have to do with your HoTs. And you donât have to have them out because you have good reactive heals if things donât go as planned to buy you time to get them out, and getting those HoTs out is just so much faster.
Yeah but precisely this is the only iteration where it is heavily enforced.
We have a Hero Tree revolving around Regrowth. Wild Stalker only procs off Wildgrowth, Efflo, and Regrowth.
Hence influencing a heavy Regrowth use.
Abundance just got reworked to reduce the cast time to further encourage us to what?
Use Regrowth.
Dragonflight season 1 Replicated a heavy Lifebloom and Regrowth use. (Primarily because it was super overturned **lifebloom was)
Dragonflight season 2 Replicated a more traditional druid that people are used too which was a ramp up with a flourish.
That became obsolete and the current iteration implemented from Season 3 Dragonflight has been ever prevalent.
The same iteration from Dragonflight S 3 rotation has been pretty stagnant. Except Grove Guardians has dropped from roughly 25% of the overall healing too 5-10%.
^ S3/4 tier set also overpowered regrowth.
In addition to this the playstyle has been the same since this is the iteration Flourish is nerfed.
Which has persisted onto now.
Druid Slands and below have been pretty much HoT-oriented in the modern expansions.
I donât want to include Vanilla, TBC because that was rocky design back then.
I stand with OP I donât like this transition for Druid.
We are a HoT class.
This hasnât been feeling well.
I think the mastery has to go, give us Rsham mastery or something new and the HoTs will make sense healing more by % of missing HP.
As well as many more innovated changes. At this point it feels like we are experiencing the same design issues of Vanilla / TBC we are just not âfinishedâ.
And i sent a link from DF S1 where it shows that even without the emphasis, the play style is still similar to this season. Meaning this isnt a new thing.
Yeah, and youâll notice that the other two spells associated with it are also major healing factors in runs as well. Sounds like its proccing off of a kit instead of focusing on only Regrowth
Want to know why theres an empahsis on Regrowth? Probably due to all the complaints of âspamming Regrowth and not feeling like its doing any healingâ that was being pushed around all of last expansion.
Spot healing (aka using regrowth) is always going to be needed. More so the harder the content becomes (due to damage scaling up and the cadence of incoming damage remaining the same or increasing).
No matter how far back you go, youre going to see a large usage on Regrowth due spot healing and aforementioned reasons.
They made Regrowth stronger to shore up RDruids weakness
Legitimate complaint. More power into spot healing makes it feel mandatory. Given thatâŚ:
This is the last thing you want. I understand the âtrust in your HoTs to do their jobâ mentality, but waiting around for 5-6 globals when someones at <25% HP is not the play. It may work for raids where you blanket cover for sustained but it would kill pvp and dungeon healing.
ExactlyâLifebloom and Regrowth were the main abilities in DF S1, but the playstyle was different from now. In DF S1, we didnât use Rejuvenation to empower Regrowth as we do in the current patch, so the gameplay felt distinct.
Lifebloom was also overtuned in DF S1, with several bugs related to Budding Leaves. Plus, DF S1 was our first experience with the problematic talent tree, which was reworked four times before launch.
As someone who played Restoration Druid in S1, I remember that halfway through the season, Blizzard nerfed Lifebloom and fixed its bugs, which shifted us toward a ramp-focused build in S2. Even then, the playstyle still struggled, so Blizzard did a mid-season rework to bring back a more traditional playstyle, releasing it around the S2 launch.
However, this build still lacked viability in Mythic+ and PvP, leading to the âDruid Crisisâ in S2, where Restoration Druids could only perform well in raids.
Blizzardâs response was yet another rework, adding Treants and the S3 tier set as a bandaid rather than a full rework.
Blizzardâs âsolutionâ was yet another rework plan, introducing Treants, Grove Guardians, and the Dragonflight Season 3 (S3) tier set as a bandaid rather than a true rework. This adjustment carried over into Dragonflight Season 4 (S4), where an overpowered tier set featured the following bonuses:
2-Piece Set Bonus: You and your Grove Guardianâs Nourishes healed two additional allies within 40 yards at 40% effectiveness.
4-Piece Set Bonus: Consuming Clearcasting caused Regrowth to also cast Nourish on a nearby injured ally at 200% effectiveness, prioritizing targets with your HoTs.
This tier set, along with the addition of Grove Guardians, significantly boosted Restoration Druidâs spot-healing capabilities, temporarily solving issues with handling high-damage waves. However, instead of integrating this style into The War Within expansion with balanced tuning, Blizzard removed it and introduced a heavily nerfed version of the tier set effect in Forest Flow, which now operates at only 60% effectiveness rather than the previous 200%.
Side note: While powerful, the combination of Grove Guardians and the tier set was starting to become overbearing, as it began to overshadow the HoT playstyle, becoming overly powerful and overtuning the class.
In Dragonflight Seasons 3 and 4, Regrowth, Treants, Swiftmend, and Grove Guardians worked well, and should have been integrated into our talents at a reduced effectiveness. However, Blizzard chose to rework the build around Regrowth and delete all that they designed for no reason besides Forest Flow, which is awfully nerfed. This has resulted in the current, less adaptable playstyle.
The current design flattens our playstyle, centering nearly everything around Regrowth. Now, almost every aspect of our kitâwhether extending durations, increasing crit chances, reducing cast times, or triggering additional HoTsâfeeds through Regrowth. With the original Dragonflight design discarded, Treants and Grove Guardians nerfed, and the powerful tier set removed, the class feels less versatile and loses its previously well-known and beloved playstyle.
Hereâs why: we currently use Abundance to spread Regrowth with faster casts. If Blizzard intended to properly support this build, they would have designed Rejuvenation to trigger Symbiotic Bloom instead of Regrowth. This would align the base rotation with the Hero tree, making Regrowth a spot-heal option during HoT extensions with Flourish, while Rejuvenation serves as a core ability.
As it stands, the setup feels backwardsâthis is why Wildstalker isnât viable in PvP or raids.
It is a fact that Restoration Druid has always been a HoT-based class, and that playstyle remains core to its identity. In Dragonflight, Treants were more than sufficient for spot healing, and the S3/S4 tier set further supported this design. There was no reason to remove those elements, yet Blizzard did, largely because of the classâs high representation.
Restoration Druidâs strong showing correlated directly with the potency of the S3/S4 tier set and the combination of old-school Convoke, Starfall, and Catweave builds. However, instead of maintaining that balance, Blizzard chose to remove it, likely because they felt the class was over-represented.
The core issue lies in the fact that Restoration Druid was punished for its high representation, which was ultimately a result of Blizzardâs own decisions. The overpowered S3/S4 tier set, while admittedly strong, was a direct response to the classâs lack of presence in other areas like PvP and Mythic+ due to the failure of the S2 rework. Blizzard implemented these tier set buffs as a compensation for the frustrated and disappointed playerbase, who felt that the S2 changes had crippled the class outside of raid content.
The crisis Restoration Druid faced in S2 was largely due to the lazy rework of talents, which were designed only to complement raiding and ignored any meaningful support for other content types. The overbuff in S3/S4 was a reactionary move to fix the damage done by the failed S2 rework, and when Blizzard removed the tier set and nerfed key abilities, it left the class in a less adaptable state.
In short, Restoration Druid did have a spot heal design that wouldâve complemented and fulfilled the HoT class playstyle in balance, but Blizzard chose not to balance it. Instead, they created a new design for no reason, further complicating the classâs viability and leaving it with less synergy than before.
In short, the changes and removal of key elements in the class have left Restoration Druid feeling like a Regrowth spam bot in TWW, using Trees to ramp, running out of mana and being forced to take Master Shapeshifter, awkwardly casting Wrath, and constantly wishing for two more talent points.
Of course, I understand that Blizzard needs to balance the game, and any healer would recognize that. Thatâs why we had Grove Guardians and Swiftmendâthose were the elements that supported the Restoration Druidâs ability to spot heal effectively. Now, itâs a counterintuitive design to remove those aspects and instead just pump up HoT and healing power that revolves solely around Regrowth.
It honestly feels like Blizzard brought old-school Vanilla BWL Restoration Druid into retail. They deleted literally half of the design for no reason.
Also, HoTs worked perfectly well in previous expansionsâBFA, Legion, WoD, and Shadowlands. They didnât break PvP in those expansions. The problem only arose when Blizzard decided to make it an issue. Why is it a problem now? I want to trust my HoTs. When I press my buttonsâRejuvenation x2, Cenarion Ward, Regrowth, Wild GrowthâI expect the target to not die in a matter of seconds.
Itâs actually disheartening when you compare that to other healing specs. For example, a Holy Paladin presses Holy Shock, Barrier of Faith, and Word of Glory, and the target is topped off. A Restoration Shaman presses Riptide, Unleash Life, and Healing Surge, and the target is at full health. Meanwhile, Restoration Druid has to rely on a complex set of HoTs that donât perform as consistently.
Why must Restoration Druid be punished for not getting the same treatment? Especially since HoTs are now a key part of other healing specs in modern WoW. For example:
Restoration Shaman: Healing Stream Totem, Earth Shield, Earthliving, Healing Rain, Riptideâaccounting for more than 40% of their healing.
Holy Paladin: Dawnlight build (which adds HoTs), Word of Glory (with HoT-like effects), and Merciless Auras (basically a 3-target Yseraâs Gift).
Designing a HoT class isnât an easy feat, but Blizzard is a rich company. They can afford to deliver effective gameplay without stripping away what makes each class unique. Itâs frustrating when the company doesnât put the time into designing and instead muddles the identities of the classes.
Itâs especially disheartening because we saw the same thing happen with Holy Paladin and Ret Paladin in Dragonflight. The community revolted, and they got real reworks, not just band-aid solutions like what Restoration Druid has received.
Restoration Druid has a unique identity, but Blizzard has chipped away at that with each iteration, and itâs hard to watch as the class becomes less versatile and less faithful to its roots.
That is why I support people making these posts. With these changes, Iâm not happy as a druid player; this isnât a full compliment to the Druid class as a whole. We are still forced into a linear, one-path build once again and forced to play a bandaid fix. Druids are supposed to be versatile, adaptable healers with a variety of tools/builds to handle different situations. But with the current focus on a single path revolving around Regrowth, itâs a stripped-down, one-dimensional playstyle that doesnât tap into the full potential of the class.
We deserve better than just patchwork fixes that leave us wishing for more talent points or better synergy in our toolkit. Itâs frustrating to feel like the classâs identity is being compromised, especially when other classes seem to get the attention they deserve with complete reworks. If Blizzard truly wants to honor the Druidâs identity, they need to give us a full, balanced, and flexible playstyleânot just another bandaid solution.
I expect a Hpally / Ret Pally level rework, and I can hope for it and I can post and complain and hopefully that occurs.
But that is all that I will say, but so forth after this post, I said my say.
I canât change your opinion. If you love the current druid, great Iâm glad you enjoy it.
You are allowed to but I wanted to at least respond and explain my view.
Due to how Mastery works, you still did/should have.
But the problem with that is, it doesnât solve the weakness of Druids which was spot healing. Does it lean more into the HoT style, sure. But thatâs also what the other 66% of the talent is, is more HoTs that can proc Blooms. Unless youâre saying youâd rather spam Rejuv on a target hoping for Blooms to proc?
There were plenty of complaints about that playstyle. Much like your current complaint about Regrowth, and how it didnât feel like the HoT based play style any more. That all you had to do was âspam trees and GGâ.
?? Most played healer spec in M+ in S2, and barely only second to Shamans in 20+ keys
Same design really. Just switched the name of the main healing spell. Reducing Grove Guardians actually puts it back into line with a HoT playstyle instead of it being the over bearing healing that it previously was.
But this has always been the case. Always.
You say this, but the #3 RDruid plays Wildstalker as does the #6 and #7, with a different talent layout than that of their Keeper of the Grove brethren. With entirely different healing profiles.
And Iâm not against the posts. I havenât once said that thereâs no room/reason to complain. Simply that âI donât remember doing thisâ is from rose tinted glasses because in fact, you did do exactly this in the past.
Much like Ferals complaining about losing their bleed/dot style play when a lot of the damage got shifted into Ferocious Bite. It didnât change the playstyle really, you still wanted to get all your bleeds out, and on every target that made sense before funneling into BiteâŚthe exact same way it always was when damage was shifted more into Bleeds.
If it feels bad/different, by all means express that. But saying âwe didnât spam regrowth in the pastââŚwellâŚyou absolutely did. And you will continue to do so in the future as well. Reasons for why may change, it the spam will remain unchanged.
I truly donât think this is what you want. I understand youâre frustrated, but this is one of those really vague requests that people donât truly think about when actually making said request. Just be careful for what you wish for.
The OP is complaining about Druids identity which is a HoT (OVER TIME EMPHASIS) and complaining that it takes time to get the healing out where as reactive healers donât have to worry about that.
You just went on a full tirade (not really but i like the word) about how you wanted to lean more into the HoT identity that was Druid and thatâs exactly what OP is complaining about.
Oh, Lord. No. RSham mastery is the reason I left RSham. I mean, for druids, it might actually be more effective than it has historically been for shaman playstyle, but it still feels bad. When youâre doing your job well and the raid isnât suffering, that mastery feels like a punishment in comparison to other healing classes (historicallyâŚespecially when compared against druids).
Our mastery feels bad now because of the way theyâve used it to drill down on Regrowth. It never felt bad to me before. It felt really rewarding and visible to see your mastery stacking pay off. Now itâs justâŚâmust stack mastery perfectly so your Flash Heal stand-in moves the bar at all.â
So I agree. Itâs un-fun right now. That said, please donât wish for the RSham mastery. /shudder
I would agree to disagree, because simply an encouraging 4 globals of HoTs that do nothing + a direct regrowth heal is unrewarding.
The Rsham mastery whilst boring, would be a insta saved to the druid as it has a High base rate baseline around like 50%-60% without even stacking it.
Which means increases healing by 50-60% default by HP decrease, which would allow us to snipe Regrowth / Forest Flow / Grove Guardians / Swiftmendheal and feel like it does something.
This in turn will allow us to stack Crit / Vers / Haste or whatever sims better.
Followed by either or just designing one periodic heal effect gives u the 60% increase healing to the target <â They could do this.
D: I hate our current mastery, lol not very many good mastery examples for Druid, maybe preservation evoker mastery seems more fitting probably since Yseraâs Gift keep us topped off on the regular.
