Resilient Keystones

Community General Discussion
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So, I was pretty excited about Resilient Keystones this season, but now I realize that it’s not as useful as I thought it would be. If I complete all 12s, then keystones can still drop to 12. That’s almost identical to last season, where for example, you fail a 13 and it drops down to a 12, then you have to do that useless 12, slogging through 30 minutes of punishment just to get your key back.

If I had it my way, the keys would not drop back down past the level you haven’t completed yet. It is so, so annoying to have to spend 30 minutes just to get back to the difficulty you want to do.

Imagine if you wiped on a mythic raid boss and you had to do the previous boss again for no reward. This is the same thing (just with a small safety net if you manage to fail twice).

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Yeah, I’m not a sweatlord that does keys, but even I can see how it’s stupid to have any depletion mechanism at all when you’ve hit a “score gooooo highhhhhhhh” territory. (I mean, I think depletion all-around is stupid, but it’s especially dumb when you’re at a point where chest gear means absolutely nothing.)

Hit +12 on everything and just remove depletion entirely.

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You’re way is bad for the health of the game.

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Letting people do the difficulty they want to do and not forcing them to slog through 30 minutes of zero reward is bad for the health of the game? I’d think more players would be interested in m+ pushing if it wasn’t so torturous.

Right now: key depletes, group falls apart, everyone is frustrated, then you have to do something you don’t want to do on top of all of that. It’s bad for community building. It’s bad for fun. I don’t see any upside to this.

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yeah feels like it is only usefull for boosters , you can run unilited times 13-14s until you time and sell the key , but if you are pushing for yourself its better to just join another key then push your own , its always going to be lacking behind 1 lvl

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Almost like the most rewarding content in the game even when failing should have a drawback for failing.

Deal with it

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The rewards kinda stop at level 10. All this drawback does is gatekeep the game from players with less time to waste. It’s not hard pushing the key back up, but it is hard to justify putting in the time to do that.

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No they don’t. The level of rewards drop but you still get rewarded.

Don’t be dumb.

There isn’t gatekeeping. Stop using buzzwords you don’t know the meaning too so that way you can stop using them incorrectly and save yourself some embarrassment.

Then don’t.

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Great news! You found your reason not to do a thing! You should listen to your instincts and stop doing it then.

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Could try slogging through 2 hours because it dropped to a 10 instead.

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If you fail a few times, imagine the time to get back the key lol

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Lol, please tell me what the reward is when you are capped on crests, 666 ilvl, have full hero gear and 8/8 vault.

The “reward” is getting back to the spot you were before. And let me remind you in my original post how bad that is:

I still like playing the game at a high level, but it doesn’t mean this time-wasting mechanic isn’t horrible.

Yeah, there is some benefit. I just haven’t personally benefited from it at all yet.

Let me get a definition of it for you:

“Gatekeeping” refers to the act of controlling access to something, whether it’s information, resources, opportunities, or a group, often with the intention of excluding others.

Let me reword it for you for this context, so you understand why it’s relevant. In this case, we’re referring to the opportunity of doing the difficult thing. The difficult thing is considered fun. It is rewarding when you complete it. The lower key is not fun, and not rewarding.

If someone has a other obligations to their family and the workplace, they probably have less time to play, hence they might feel left out because other players are not going to accept them into their group because they just don’t have the time to maintain a high score equal to their ability. And I am sure we have all sat in the queues for longer than we have liked just because our score is a little lower than others. Sure, while the intent isn’t there to gatekeep people, capable players ARE being kept away from difficult gameplay purely because they have less time to commit. Currently, high-end M+ can take so much more commitment than mythic raiding.

If keys didn’t deplete to levels we have already completed, people would be more willing to try lesser-score players in their groups. They would be more willing to try people with less time to play the game. I don’t see any drawback to that. The depleting mechanism honestly only sucks. I’ve had friends decline to play with me just because they don’t want to brick the key.

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You not needing the reward because you’re capped doesn’t mean a reward doesn’t drop.

It doesn’t mean mplus isn’t still the most rewarding mode in the game even for failure.

And your original post was as much of a bad idea now as it was when you first posted it.

Didn’t I tell you

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You clearly can’t comprehend you’re using it wrong

Everyone has the same access.

That’s still not gatekeeping sunshine.

The only thing that can gatekeep anyone by the definition is Blizzard.

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I am in agreeance with the OP, it is very much not an enjoyable system currently, but a huge step in the right direction.

The arguements Snozay say of “Just deal with it”, “Don’t be dumb.” and just not to play are pretty downright terrible, objectively. It’s a game, we want to play and have fun. Pushing content is an enjoyable facet, but the risk of depleting your own keystone down to content you’ve already cleared is just not an enjoyable design. Imagine if every time you wiped on a raid boss you had to clear an hour of trash mobs. There’s no upside to “homework” keys being a feature at this point in WoW’s life.
It’s not like keys suddenly become easier because players would have more access to keys 1 higher than their current max cleared rank. You would still have to form a group, commit time, form routes, coordinate kicks. Having depletions one higher would also allow for; trying new routes for different comps, bringing players/specs you may otherwise not bring as the risk would be mitigated, a reason to stick around in a key after it fails so you can attempt it again (currently one person messes up, they say “gg nt go next”, and everyone leaves), and would promote a system where you’re able to make connections and grow rather than just tear eachother down at the first sign of mistake.

I’m sorry Snozay but you’re just wrong, and I don’t think you’ve provided anything meaningful to this conversation.

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I believe blizzard stated a while back that they don’t want this because it would lead to an m+ score inflation.

What you’re suggesting effectively means infinite amount of attempts on keys that rewards score. That promotes perfection, and will at a high enough level lead to people restarting keys at the slightest mistake. You can to some extent already see that in resilient keystones, where a lot of people happily attempts some absurd first pulls and then restarts the key if things go south. From what I recall blizzard don’t want this to be the norm, they want you to strive for perfection in high keys, but not to start over whenever there’s the slightest mistake happening.

What we have now is a good compromise. The key doesn’t go below what you’ve proved yourself capable of handling, but it promotes trying to overcome any minor setbacks that may happen during a push key rather than promoting an elitist environment that demands perfection in all aspects.

What they could do on top of this, that has been lifted by people several times before, is add charges to a keystone. Give people two or three attempts rather than one or infinite attempts. It still promotes playing great, but allows more mistakes without feeling as severely punishing as it does now. The downside I can see is that players will be greedy and after a while say that X charges isn’t enough, and that it should be Y charges instead.

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You could post this on almost every topic and it would be right though

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The person who has timed the same dungeon 6 times on +12 will have a higher success rate in the +13 than the person who’s only ever done the +12 once.

If you only have a 12, but want the feeling of a 13, take off a random offpiece. Doing a 12 at 650 is the same as doing a 13 at 660.

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I love how people call things this when the ENTIRE GAME IS A TIME WASTE

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Do you think if we dug through his post history long enough, that we might someday find one where he’s not being contrarian, argumentative, dismissive, mean-spirited, or arguing the exact definition of “gatekeeping”?

Personally, I have my doubts.

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