Developers’ note: We’re targeting Demonology’s multi-target profile with these adjustments to bring them closer to other damage dealers. We will continue to watch both single-target and multi-target performance, along with the output of new talents and adjustments delivered in 10.0.7, and make further adjustments down the road if needed.
[With realm restarts] Demonic Strength now increases the damage of Felstorm by 300% (was 400%). This does not affect PvP combat.
[With realm restarts] Dreadbite damage reduced by 10%. This does not affect PvP combat.
Are you all off your rockers at Blizz? Demo was doin decent but it was not blowing the other DPS out of the water… have a look at Rogues and several other classes before nerfing that is working.. ever heard the phrase.. Don’t fix it if it ain’t broke???
I’m not entirely convinced we have a warlock dev, i doubt the person making decisions plays a lock as a main, maybe warlock related stuff is a side task for them?
There is a whole post about this down below. Trust me, we all feel the frustration with these issues and the so called ‘balancing’ patches that have no reason or rhyme.
I suspect there are no dedicated class specific developers. I would say there are combat designers and engineers that work on some or all classes and some of them may actually play the game outside of their test environment.
What’s shocking about those dev notes is they are targeting multi-target profile while the dogs are pretty much our most consistent singlet target damage and DS is a good single target CD too. If they really wanted to target multitarget nerfing implosion would have been better. It leads me to believe they have no clue how demono works. I’ve not done many keys since the nerf but it looks like a 8k+ overall nerf in mythic+ (~10%) which is insane and no way demono was strong enough to warrant such a nerf.
If a nerf is .1% or 10%, it wasn’t warranted. That is a fact. We have other classes in M+ dominating Keys for weeks/months ESPECIALLY (their golden child) Ret Plds and Rogues have been sitting pretty at rank 1 by at the minimum by 5% ahead of the other classes. The warlock community took a hit because they were able to keep up to the top 10% of the pack. Sounds fair? While leaving these 2 unscathed?
So raid comes along and warlocks are ONCE AGAIN recieiving PI and guess what?
Nerf Hammer: they decided to Nerf Locks because Raid logs + PI. (Sounds like SL all over again)
Our M+ Logs have been a crap storm since 10.0 hit. Always been middle of the pack.
They see Warlocks creeping up to Rogues and Rets who are now clearly 5-10% ahead of the pack, buuuuuut lets nerf Warlocks /point /laugh /@warlocks
After we got our rework/buffs 2 weeks backon that anticapted 10.7 patch. I was pumped to see some action again. Pumped to get back into the game and start pushing some keys. I couldn’t wait till 10.7 hit. Guess what? All that was taken away within what, 3 days?
My passion for the class has died, the devs lost any trust I have with their balancing approach. All you have to do is check out the logs and be the judge yourself and say… well its ‘just’ a x% nerf. Just doesn’t cut it when again, it isn’t justified.
Man, you just gotta say enough is enough. Step away and hope they bring in people who have a clue and remove those who don’t.
It kinda is, since fel storm is gonna have its damaged reduced by 20% again next tier.
This is ontop of the dreadbite nerf, despite supposedly being an AoE nerf, directly nerfs our ST, when they could have just removed the 10% bonus damage from dreadlash, our AoE talent, to achiev the aoe damage reduction without affecting Pure ST.
It’s clearly shows that whoever is in charge of the changes doesn’t even know what’s on our talent tree, yet are for some reason allowed to make changes to the class.
Side note, they also bandaid fixed demonbolts lack of damage using tier sets again, clearly they know it’s damage is to low since they keep putting damage amps on it with tier sets, they should just remove it from the tier set and buff the ability itself.
Demonic Strength is overpowered at it’s position in the tree and in comparison to the opposing choice of Bilescourge Bombers. Losing the tier set will likely bring those more in line, but I imagine Strength will still be the superior pick. I am not saying that anyone wants to play BSB, but the choice may be somewhat relevant again.
I imagine they will buff implosion or HoG damage in the future to compensate if/when it is determined that our aoe is lacking once more, opposed to touching this ability again.
The situation with dogs in the tree is weird. There are so many affecting nodes and modifiers that you can’t really touch them without nerfing throughput on everything. Dreadlash would have been the only feasible place to hit pure aoe, but we take that talent in 95% of situations anyway, so it would end up affecting single target regardless. A better target would have been implosion or hog cleave damage if they wanted to affect overall aoe. It seems like they were trying to tamp down our burst though, which is dstrength and dreadbite.
I agree. Their developers note to explain the nerf was incredibly stupid.
It’s not Overpowered, BsB is underpowered, and on top of this BsB has no synergy with anything else in the tree, while DS has multiple talents in the tree that it directly interacts with, causing BsB to basically never be a choice as long as they share a node.
They will never be brought in line with eachother as long as they share the same node for the previously mentioned reasons.
It won’t.
They can nerf dreadlash, and not dreadbite.
Only because all fights but terros this tier have tons of cleave, where as next tier this is not the case at all, and we aren’t using it nearly as much on those fights even before the nerf.
They weren’t trying to affect overall AoE, they were hitting our 1Min burst profile which has been over inflating our erenog and raz logs.
Yeah thats it. However the problem is this burst profile is the only thing which made demo relevant this tier, since it just happened to line up with certain mechanics:
Eranog dogs line up close to all add spawns, and DS + tyrant lined up with every pack on the 1 minute timer.
Raz, we not only had our tyrant and ds for the first intermission adds, but also for each stormshield.
One of the major issues in what they’re doing right now, is tuning around our profile which lines up with many of the timers for this tier.
Next tier it’s a lot more sustained, and ST focused, so this profile we have now, won’t be nearly as strong in that regard.
Another major issue is we are being balanced around PI existing, which itself is an extreme problem.
Yeah, because there aren’t other OBVIOUS specs doing absurd AOE burst more consistently than demo.
PI will always be a problem, because they either tune it so it’s relevant (ie OP if you get it), or so that it does so little damage you may as well remove it.
They refuse to accept that it is NOT FUN if you are in a raid and not getting PI. Yeah yeah, whatever helps you kill the boss etc - sure, tune the boss around nobody getting PI, that way individual contribution matters rather than relying on an external buff.
I disagree. I think demonic strength was out of balance based on where it exists in the tree and it is still likely one of the strongest single points in the first 2 gates. Not to mention it was significantly better than our AoE capstone. There has been no downside to putting a point in Demonic Strength, and there still won’t be going forward.
Same goes for Demon Bolt, which should be baselined. This issue exists in multiple rows in the tree and i am fine with them rebalancing things. I suspect we will see some damage injected in Guillotine or implosion at some point in the near future.
Throughput is all that matters when you have 2 options that do virtually the same thing, burst aoe. Whichever one results in the highest throughput in a specific scenario will generally be taken regardless of tree synergy. That being said, it would be sad to have to play bilescourge in it’s current state, if they just decide to buff it because balance.
I didn’t say there weren’t i was just giving an opinion on what they were “targetting”, even though there were collateral nerfs in the process.
I think the majority of players would prefer PI be gone but who knows the exact figure. Regardless, i think PI is unhealthy in a game where individual enjoyment is so heavily driven by metrics and comps to other players.
You can disagree all you want, but that won’t change that DS being strong isn’t a result of overtuning.
Because the AoE capstone was nerfed into a condition where even in AoE it was worse then some of the most basic talents in the tree.
I doubt they’ll touch Guillotine again since with its CD it would basically be swinging damage from our 1 min profile to our close to 1 min, which since they don’t want that profile to be as strong, they won’t buff it anymore.
Implosion I can see being buffed, however, this again swings back around into our 1min profile due to GWD existing.
They would basically just be undoing the nerfs they just did, which I doubt is their intention.
That’s the problem, unless DS is nerfed into an unusable state outside of explicit 1 min add cycles bsb would never see play, because you need to remember, DS also affects our ST burst by applying damage taken debuff to enemies, and also gains from damage amps like tyrant, and now the new felguard tier set.
BsB will never be able to compete with that unless it’s buffed into the point of absurdity, or DS gets nerfed into nearly unplayable state, which would also affect our ST damage.
Fair enough. I don’t see them reversing any of this damage to demonic strength, even after the tier set is gone. It is in a reasonable state to me now. Other things in the tree should be adjusted instead.
It’s also a 60 second cool down, so by that metric, it’s pretty underwhelming. So maybe the adjustment should be they unnerf it and place it deeper in the tree, OR they significantly reduce the CD.
I’d prefer a strong 60s CD since it lines up well with GWD and Tyrant and if they need to move it farther down, so be it.
It packs the power of 3 felstorms into a single global. It may be underwhelming but compared to similarly place talents like soul strike and bilescourge bombers, it is very overpowered. Moving it to another spot would lend itself to having more strength but then we have to figure out what to do with BSB. The ability is just bad.
Anyways, I think there are more pressing issues to look at. They are going to prop GFG up to the point of being better than base tyrant using tier next season and then it’s just going to go back to being a relatively weak 2 minute cooldown that doesn’t line up with anything. There is so much more work to be done in the tree besides demonic strength tuning.
