Removing melee from Holy kills the spec for me

I’m sure I’m not alone in this but the direction Holy Paladin has been taking since Dragonflight has shifted me away from healing and back to ret.

Simply, I love paladins in Warcraft. I thought Uther was such a cool character and the idea of a front line support unit has always been my ideal class fantasy. I want to deal damage to heal damage, simple as, with a big 2 handed hammer.

Standing in melee range only to cast rebuke or auto attack feels clunky. I wish Blizzard had redesigned Crusader Strike into something worth pressing instead of butchering the class with this Holy Shock overwrite change.

Please don’t ruin one of the best things about Holy Paladin Blizz.

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When I play a healer, I do not like that I have to stand in melee or deal damage to heal. You are a healer, not a damage dealer. I find it very odd and very weird people want to damage in order to heal, it’s literally not the role for doing damage.

If they had a support role I would be all for support role specs doing damage and helping to heal and some specs would be tossed into this category, but as a healer you shouldn’t be dealing damage in order to heal. That’s so bizarre n so weird. That’s like being a doctor and saying you wanted to be a doctor to kill vile diseases, which makes no sense as a doctor is one who heals people.

Also, more than half of healers disagree with you on being melee and on being a DPS healer. Again, it’s not part of the role. They should remove DPS and damage dealing from the healing role and make them pure healers, and then throw in support role and make them do the DPS healing stuff, instead, and make dungeons and parties for 6 people to include a support, an actual healer, a tank and 3 dps.

I wish that people would just get it in their heads: if you want to do damage, play a damage dealer role. Stop combining the roles. Same with tanks; tanks shouldn’t be healing anyone besides themselves, at best, under all circumstances and even then it shouldn’t even be much either.

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So much yapping to say nothing.

Paladins are the best melee healer archetype in wow and its being killed for a reskinned hpriest.

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Most people don’t care to be in melee if they’re healing. That’s why caster HPal was a popular thing back before they forced people who played HPal into playing other healers, instead, and went with the melee healer nonsense. Yes, it’s full on nonsense.

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Tbh this is purely a matter of opinion and preference. As someone who has played healers my entire time in mmorpgs i enjoy incorperaring dps and healing in tandem, I personally would be bored in easier content if i had to stand around and do nothing as opposed to .

And the other half would disagree with you. All roles have the ability to optimize their skill expression beyond their main role to an extent. Healers and tanks can weave additional damage, dps can use defensives to ease the burden on tanks and healers. All three roles can provide different degrees of crowd control to help make life easier for everyone.

Making healers that use their dps to heal or want to position in melee to do their job does not take away from other more traditional healers that would cater to you and this theoretical ‘more then half’ and is healthier for class feel and diversity.

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Right here is your issue. “I would be bored” so the game has to basically be fireworks for you at all times, which is why a lot of times this game’s designs go down the crapper. They need to design for ADD and for fireworks at all times, which is not great game design, imo.

You are correct, healers are split 50/50 and that’s because you have a lot of DPS swapping to healing because they can’t stand long que times or are forced into healing because of other reasons. They have DPS brain, not healer brain, playing as a healer and not as a DPS.

No, all it’s doing is creating more firework brains. This is basically saying “tiktok is fine because it caters to a lot of individuals who want different things” when really it is not fine because it shortens your attention span by a mile, but hey, corporate America does that, too.

Stick to the role you signed up for, and don’t intervene on the other side of the isle’s roles and responsibilities. If they mess up then they mess up, tell them they messed up and move on to fixing the issue.

It does take away from the more traditional healer in every sense of that because then the only thing people want is dps healers, which again forces the non dps healers into the dps healing nonsense known as slop. You have a team, depend on them. Stop trying to do everything yourself regardless of the reason, even “just because I’m bored.”

For those who want melee HPal back I hope they give it to you, as well as make literally every single ability you have require melee and require people to stand in melee in order to be healed. I want them to go full out and full stop on the “melee healer” to where you can only heal those in front of you and those in melee in front of you, so then you can see just how nonsense it really is.

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So in conclusion. You want to play a slower paced game where all a healer can do is heal? And what we associate with fun and skill expression is adhd brain rot to you?

I would say wow classic would be perfect for you, but even i found i could weave dps just fine in the easier content there. Wanding and dots on priest, meleeing with the damage or mana seal on paladin…so on and so forth.

Maybe you should play p99 everquest, where all the cleric does is wait for their turn to cast complete heal and meditate for their mp until the line comes back to them.

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No, I don’t care if the game’s pace is slow or fast. I will play it regardless of whatever it is because I adapt to the fast pace or to the slow pace of it.

Maybe you should stick to tiktok where your firework brain can be better entertained every 30 seconds with a new clip until your attention span is shorter than Dory’s from Finding Nemo.

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Yeah you’ve just lost your mind at this point.

Anyway. Healers being able to do things beyond only heal is good. Healers having positional requirements beyond “Stand 40 yards away” is good.

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“I would be bored” speaks volumes.

Like I said I hope they go full in on the melee HPal for you guys and literally give you nothing but melee only abilities, nothing but melee only healing to where you can’t hit the ranged staying at 25+ yards away, at all. I want to see how many people swap off the spec and go play something else the moment that HPal becomes a literal melee healer where the only people it can heal are those in melee range and nothing more. I want to see how many HPals can’t find a group anymore because most groups prefer having ranged dps and now with a ranged dps the HPal is useless for pugs cause the ranged dps isn’t going to be in melee.

And I mean literally every ability requiring melee range. You can’t be further than melee range to use any ability, there is no hybrid style, there is nothing more It’s just melee only range for you guys. If you can’t melee the target you can’t use the ability, at all. For your heals it would be the same, too. They will not work on anything further than melee range from your toon. Worse than the cone LoD style.

I’ve never really been a fan of melee healing, but having said that it seems to me that the wrong things are being taken away to make playing easier, dumber, or whatever the theory is. There are whole sections of the talent table that could just be deleted without affecting anyone’s fun.

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Ignoring how absolutely mental your posts has been in this thread…you do know MW monks exist right?

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Yes, you do know those aren’t melee healers…they’re hybrid healers, correct? I think none of you realize what you’re actually advocating for… and how stupid it really is, but as I said before I hope they deliver to you a melee healer and turn HPal into it.

MW monk is a hybrid healer and the last 2 seasons the caster version has been actually the play for raiding, not the melee version, but hey, I could get behind them doing it to them too and just literally making them a melee only healer as well.

The conception of melee healing is absurd, you should be a ranged healer regardless of the class or healer style. That being said, though, again, I’m all for them making melee healers that are true to their name and core of being melee healers… and not a hybrid healer. Go all in or nothing at all and if people want a melee healer style they should get what they’re asking for so they understand that what blizzard always states is very accurate towards the playerbase: “you think you do, but you don’t.” Most people are too stupid to realize what they’re advocating for isn’t what they really want, but again, I hope they deliver on that style so I can see people flock away from those healers because most pug groups ain’t picking either of them up then the moment they become a true melee healer.

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I’d actually argue paladin is/was the more “hybrid” healer, as unlike MW that had very clear distinction between melee healing and ranged healing, hpal was designed to straddle the line of “wanting” to do both at the same time.

I’m not really talking about which sees more play or not, I’m referring to actual design. And by design, MW’s spec tree was built to support both playstyles. And no, Fistweaving suddenly didn’t delete soothing mist from monk’s spellbook, just like Avenging Crusader didn’t delete Holy Light .

What most people wanted was for them to actually put in a clear distinction so that the both playstyles could flourish.

But you’re clearly in the camp of healers shouldn’t do anything but stand in the back and pick their noses so it really isn’t worth much pretending to have a discussion with you beyond this point.

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Hell yeah blizzard make holy paladin casters again, now do the same for mist weavers in midnight

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We already have a majority of healing specs/playstyles that stand back and cast while healing. The whole class fantasy of paladin was someone wearing heavy armor that gets into the fray. Making them pure ranged again just makes the class a priest in plate instead of a frontline combatant.

Kinda boring to have every healer just sit back casting spells.

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I’m for the camp of healers just being healers. It makes no sense, literally no sense, for any healer to be up front in the melee zone. Even wearing heavy plate armor it doesn’t matter, gameplay wise it makes no sense to be up front outside of when you’re forced into doing so cause talents or abilities.

You can’t have this because most people are going to gravitate towards whatever does the best for whatever they’re doing. And again, half the healers want to just heal, the other half are more DPS players pretending to be healers and wanting to do more.

And again, half the healers want to sit in the back and the other half want to sit up front.

Like I stated before: the healing community is split, but performance will dictate which sees play in areas of the game.

I’m in the camp for the healer’s job should be as simple as possible, yes, standing is the back is the safest because most people don’t watch ground effects on the ground or can’t see them when they’re in melee. Go into pugs and see how many melee dps get hit by everything and you’d be surprised at how many people do.

That’s honestly the job, bro. I don’t like people advocating for your role to do more than what it needs to do and I don’t like people advocating to make this game harder when it’s already rough for pugging as it is. I don’t care for the “get some friends” aspect because most people play this game through pugging, not through friend groups and not through guilds and not through other means. It’s a pug world and a pug life.

That being said, though, I’m all for things being easier for pugs since that’s where the majority of players are going to be interacting and then when you que into guild groups half the time they play like pugs regardless, too. There are very very good guild groups, sure, but those are few and far between compared with guilds that aren’t very good.

Most people are casual and play this game to relax, not to push a boundary or get world first, world 100, etc. They don’t care to think of this game as a job, either. If it was they would be getting paid for it, but they aren’t so it’s a hobby and as such it should be and will be treated as such.

As i stated, though, I want to see how badly people want “melee healers” and I want blizzard to go all in for both this and MW as a melee healer, not hybrid, but an actual literal melee healer and I want to see just how many people change their minds saying “nah, nevermind I don’t want melee healer.” Most people fall into the “you think you do, but you don’t” category which is why blizzard listens to some feedback and not all feedback, especially given a lot of people’s feedback isn’t detailed and is more along the lines of “this just doesn’t feel right” with no specifics mentioned outside of that.

By melee healers I am stating no hybrid nonsense of any kind. No ranged attacks or abilities or heals, at all. You are in melee, you will heal those within melee range or at most 3 yards range. Anyone beyond 3 yards in front of you isn’t going to be healed, at all. Let’s see the melee healer style in full swing and not a hybrid style, not a caster style, but a full on melee healer style. All heals are instant cast just like a melee dps, and you do dps to heal n all that but the cost of such is you have no range on your abilities or on your healing, at all.

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My first healer was a Holy Paladin in TBC, and it got even better in WOTLK.
Then Cataclysm came, and I stopped healing.
Using Holy Power as a healer felt stupid to me.
It wasn’t until Legion — when they decided to remove Holy Power — that I went back to healing with Paladin.
Only to drop it again in BFA when this melee healer nonsense started.

There was already a melee healer —
the Monk.
We didn’t need another one.

But oh well,
the game can’t be shaped around my tastes.

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A melee healer with spells that only work in melee that can only target characters 5yrds from him wouldn’t work period. You already know that and anyone else who’s played a single dungeon or raid knows that. I don’t understand the point of bringing up something that obviously wouldn’t work.

People who like the melee aspect of it like being in the frontline, which is what the class fantasy of paladin is all about. Part of being in the frontline is having something specific to being in the frontline, such as a melee attack. Holy paladin with melee abilities works right now and has worked before.

If it’s a problem of definition, than melee healer = hybrid, which is what every pally who’s been asking to be a melee healer means. MW has a talent buildout that emphasizes being in melee, with multiple interactions in skills based off those melee strikes.

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Yes, it’s a problem of definitions. As I stated: most people don’t actually know anything about what they truly want. “You think you do, but you don’t” is so famously used by blizzard because it represents the WoW community itself due to the sheer amount of vastly different people playing this game at all times.

Some say “I want melee healer” and then blizzard literally give you a melee healer, as I described it up there and then nobody likes it, but you guys ASKED for a melee healer and for the HPal to be back in the melee zone again instead of being a caster. You didn’t ask for hybrid, you asked for a melee healer and wanting to play in the melee of things. Melee HPal was basically DPS brains that heal saying they want to play like a DPS while being a healer, which makes 0 sense because you signed up to be a healer not to be a DPS.

Retribution is a DPS spec, go play that. Holy is a healing spec. Healers should not be up front int the thick of things. As a design perspective and as a tactics perspective that’s the dumbest thing to do as a healer because if you die you’re not healing anyone else and as far as battle goes those in the frontline tend to die the earliest and fastest from a fantasy and battle and strategy standpoint.

If I were a general and I had a healer, I would never let them up front because of how important they are. They would stand all the way in the very back of the group so I can make sure they’re as protected from the mobs and monsters as they possibly can be.

No, the fantasy isn’t about being on the frontline, it’s about controlling the light and using the light. For Retribution it’s about being up front and for Protection it’s about being up front. For Holy it was about casting prayers through the light from the back of the group. Yes, they did do some melee, but that was very rarely the case.

As for this: “I want them to be a melee healer again” I gave people what they wanted and asked for. You just didn’t like it. Again, words matter and people are too stupid to understand how their words actually impact them. think of game design like a genie. If you word your wish awesomely, that genie could grant you everything you’ve ever wanted. If you worded it poorly, that genie will grant you what you asked for and you don’t actually get what you want because you chose bad wording when you gave a presentation about it.

That being the case, though, again I don’t think any healers should be melee not even monk and most of the time melee monk isn’t even played, either. It’s typically caster monk that blizzard tunes to be better because they understand that people really lack awareness and suck horribly at the mechanics of this game, thus you’re able to avoid more bad things as a ranged healer vs a melee healer.