Remove the anonymity from vote-kick

This will immediately spark a controversy. But it has to be done. It need to be done. Some of the people in this community will disagree. I don’t necessarily need to delve into the whole principle. And the thread title alone summarizes the entire point.

So basically, this is the TL:DR: Don’t let the unintended victims be abused.

But if you want to understand the reasoning, Then I’ll give you full reasons. Essentially, how the vote-kick system is the majority of the party must agree to remove you. The reason can be whatever. Because the vote-kicked don’t know the reason why they get kicked. Nor why they incurred this consequence. They’ll simply be banished to the void with repercussions on them, and no chance for the victim to gain their reprisal.

The system is, in a sense, extremely skewed to the votekicker.

The vote-kicked will simply get vote-kicked. They will suffer a thirty-minute desertion buff. Cannot queue for contents while they wait thirty-minutes. Thirty-minute of their precious subscription time, wasted. With no chance to recoup from that lost time. You might suggest ‘Do other things. Just take a break. Just follow up on some chore’, but that’s not excusing anything.

That’s just punishing the person that got vote-kicked for any possible reason. Even if the reason is justified, or not. It proves no validity to keep a thirty-minute time-out.

The other thing is that it allows the vote-kicker to ‘bully’ that person. With the victim not knowing the schemes concocted behind their back. They will not be aware until the moment they’re forcibly removed from the party without realization. And they’ll not know who did this. You might say that it is to protect the vote-kicker from harassment. But those that harass the vote kickers of justify getting reported and banned. Therefore if the person harassing the individual threw insults their way. Then it means that punishment will be reasonably wrought in more sensible matter.

However if the vote-kick is unjustified… And passes with intent to grief that person. Then that’s where a critical problem comes into play.

How do Blizzard handle those that abuse the system? They get off scot-free. Innocent. This only encourages guild-groups. This encourages people to use the follower system. This encourages people not to play the game whatsoever. This ultimately encourages more obsessive control over who plays in the party.

And that’s an issue.

To give you an idea. I’ve been informed by another individual who was doing this dungeon with me. They told me that I almost got vote-kicked for being ‘AFK’ because I died right before the boss due to tank not taking up aggro from adds that they intentionally ignored. (Bear in mind, the add cannot be skipped. Big difference from skipping optional packs and dealing with mandatory packs. This was an add that was in the middle of a tunnel that you have to deal with.)

As such. There was a vote-kick against me while I was having to sprint to the boss.

Thankfully that fell through.

And so the auto-kicking system’s hand was stilled for that moment. I was spared from wrongful wraith. But for the times where vote-kicks did pass. I would have to wait thirty minutes. Thirty minutes of my life just waiting for that debuff to end. And I would have to either play another character to do dungeons. Thirty minutes is more than enough to run roughly two to three dungeons in a timely manner.

Blizzard needs to make vote-kick a repercussion for both sides.

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Here’s the thing, bad actors created the 15Min debuff back in End of Wrath with the original LFG tool that punished leavers. When Cata hit and heroics were hard mode again, people didn’t want to do certain ones, so instead of leaving and taking their 15min debuff, they held groups hostage, be it tank/healer/dps, it didn’t matter, someone would hold a group hostage in different ways.

That 15min debuff then got put onto kicks as well. Fast Forward to Season 1 of TWW and people were abusing the system for Ara Kara for a chance at the Sacbrood regardless of other people, cause they system went by killing a boss would remove the debuff gain. Since so many people left after the first boss of Ara Kara and put someone else to fill their place with no chance of that trinket, Blizz put their foot down and said, doesn’t matter which way someone leaves, 30 mins is now the penalty to stifle those who were causing that problem.

The repercussion for Vote Kicking someone is, you get put on a CD and can’t vote kick someone for some time, and the time gets longer the more you vote kick in those periods too. At some point, you won’t be able to vote kick and if you were abusing it, you may end up with someone who ends up making you leave and taking the debuff yourself and still have that vote kick CD as well.

Can’t blame Blizzard for fixing a problem with best options they have. You can only blame player behavior from all the way back in 2009 - today for that.

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It’s worth about 1 penny. Using hyperbole like “precious subscription time” to describe $0.01 doesn’t make your argument look better.

Correct, the system doesn’t provide an avenue for the kicked person to get reprisal against the people who didn’t want them in the group anymore lol. That’s working as intended.

The vote kick has no built in value judgement. There is no “justified” or “not justified”. There is only the question of did a majority of people not want the kicked person in their group anymore. Stop taking it personally.

So, just to be clear, in this instance you were not vote kicked? The system prevented you from being removed because a majority of the group didn’t vote to kick you. It sounds like it’s working.

If you choose to spend 30 minutes staring at the debuff counting down that’s not a fault of the system. There’s lots of other things you can do with that time, in and out of game.

The whole point of the system is to give groups the opportunity to remove someone who is making the experience negative for them. There’s not supposed to be a repercussion for the people kicking.

I’m sorry that you’re frustrated by these experiences, but I’ve been doing queued content for 15 years and have been kicked maybe 10-15 times. If this is a recurring problem you might want to examine the ways you’re interacting with people that might be making them feel like they would have more fun without you in their groups.

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Doesn’t invalidate the point in slightest, I’m afraid. You could be playing the game, instead you have to sit in the time-out corner.

Almost as if I’ve addressed the major issue that you’re avoiding. Don’t try to shy from the fact where you’re dealing with abusive party. Which is the entire point of the thread here.

You also skipped around and started focusing on vote kick system rather than the person that utilizes the vote-kick.

You’ll be surprised to know that one singular person have prevented me from getting votekicked.

You didn’t read the post. Re-read it again.

Again. There’s no issue between me, and them other than the fact that they immediately sprinted for vote-kick. There’s no real conversation between them, and I that was engaged in this entire instance. You’re not reading what is presented.

Please read before you post. You ignored half the statement.

Unfortunately yes. I just wishes there’s better way to handle this vote-kick system because as it stands, it’s tool that is utilized to inflict undeserved punishment.

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It invalidates the assertion that your 30 minutes is “precious subscription time”.

Kicking someone isn’t abusive, and that’s the issue you’re not understanding.

The person utilizing the system provided doesn’t matter if the system is working correctly. They didn’t want you there, they initiated a kick, and at least 2 other people agreed with them. The story should end there, but you want to add in irrelevant things like “justified” and “unjustified”, that aren’t part of the system.

I won’t be surprised, because I know how the system works. A group of 3 who queued together require a 4th person to accept their vote kick in order to pass it. Again, the system is working as intended.

What is your explanation for my average of 1 kick per year and your much more frequent incidences? Or, if you’re also getting kicked once per year, what is even the problem?

I read everything you wrote, and I didn’t ignore anything. Your entire point is an emotional response to a system that you don’t fully understand.

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It does not.

Again. Ignoring the point .Just move on if you’re gonna contribute to nothing.

More often than not, people’ll just click yes or even no. It’s not even the case of ‘They don’t you there.’ If you took the serious time to read the entire post. You might come to a conclusion that it is possible for there to be 3-man guild party, 4-man guild party engaging in conversations in voice-chat that you’re not participated into.

But at this point you’re not very much contributing to anything and failed to invalidate any points presented.

This is a bold assumption. A really bold assumption. Do you seriously have nothing to contribute to this thread?

And it’s clear you did not.

This is never going to happen, because Blizzard doesn’t want to take on the huge increase in reports when some unstable nutjob takes up a vendetta against the players who (perhaps righteously) kicked them.

Although there would be some value in those whackjobs publicly identifying themselves so that they can hurry on towards their inevitable ban.

Unfortunately. Blizzard’s gradual transition from actual customer support to automated reporting system have been a very negative downtrend overall.

But yes. Yes, it with very high chance, won’t happen.

Anyone enough unhinged enough to want to “unmask their persecutors” is unhinged enough to attack them by any channel available, in ways which inevitably mean they get rightly reported for social infractions and GMs have to suspend them.

Like I said, evolution in action has its value.

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If the person wishes to attack the one that got them party-kicked for justified reason. Then that person is setting themselves up for a ban. After-all, you’re here to play the game.

If the person party-kicked you with intent to grief. You can do one of two following course: Report them (in an ideal world this would work, but it never does), or ignore them so you never queue up with them again (Effectively avoiding them forever.)

But if there’s one thing that need to be done away, even if they won’t change that. They could’ve at least removed Deserter debuff that you incurred by being P-kicked.

It 100% does. If the amount of time you’re complaining about is worth 1 penny, it is, by definition, not precious.

How is this ignoring the point? Your whole point is based on kicking someone being abusive. It’s not, so your entire point is invalid. Pointing that out isn’t ignoring the point; it’s demonstrating that you have no actual point.

That’s an unfounded assumption. I, for example, have never once clicked yes without wanting the person out of the group.

I did read the entire post, and who cares what a 3 or 4 person party is talking about in voice chat? It’s not your business.

What am I assuming? That you get kicked more than once per year? I covered that by asking what is even the problem if it’s not a frequent issue.

Someone not agreeing with you doesn’t mean they didn’t read what you wrote.

You’ve failed to make any substantial argument in support of your position. As I said before, it’s a bunch of emotional reactions to a system you don’t understand. I’m pointing out the failures of your reason. It’s not my fault that you’re so invested in your position that you’re unwilling to accept logical dissent.

2 Likes

If this is the TL:DR this is going to resolve this immediately: There is no abusive kick or victims of abuse here.

It’s not. It objectively never is.

Isn’t a thing outside of battlegrounds.

No, they don’t. The repercussion of a failed kick is that the group doesn’t remove the player.

If the party is being abusive in chat and they remove you, congrats. You’ve been spared dealing with them. There is no such thing as abusive vote kicks.

It isn’t. The penalty for a vote kick is the penalty for leaving an incomplete instance if and only if it is incomplete. That’s precisely what it should be.

You’ve definitely not made a point to ignore.

Those are the two options to pick, yes. I reject the notion that so many people make that reading the often two-word reason is impossible to do.

That’s precisely what it is. The vote kick system is to remove someone the majority does not want to play with.

Never happened. GMs or members of the hacks team review all account actions. Being removed from a group is not an account action, and never has been.

That will always be 75% to 100% of the group, and there will never be a benefit to knowing who said yes or no. While the reason may occasionally be helpful, there is 0 benefit to sharing names.

It doesn’t work because using the vote kick system as intended isn’t griefing.

No. If you don’t complete the instance, you get the deserter debuff. I could see the penalty being higher if vote kicked, but anyone who played wrath saw how players would simply afk to get removed when it didn’t give the debuff. It should never benefit the player to behave inappropriately and get kicked over simply leaving.

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There is abusive kicks of a victim of abuse. But take your stance as it is then.

And you would be surprised that it often is. Again. You’re acting as if premades do not exist.

And this abusive vote-kick resulted in you being timed out for thirty-minute of no dungeon finder.

But it is. That’s one of few issues.

Then why are you here?

And this justify wasting your time when you inevitably re-run the dungeon with the very person who kicked you before, and tried to kick you again?

Because there’s no actual method to figure out who party-kicked you. As such, there’s never been a reprisal for those that abused the vote-kick system.

The benefit is ability to put the person that tried to vote-kick you to ignore-list. So that you never get them in your queues.

The intent of the person utilizing the vote-kick can define it as griefing. In a survival game with regulated environment, just because the game gave you innate access to explosives does not mean you should use them to waste someone else’s time. Almost majority of survival servers I played have this clause to not grief players’ bases. Otherwise it would be just raiding if it’s PVP server.

As I once said, it is a tool currently used to inflict undeserved punishment on those that didn’t deserve the 30 minutes timer.

Being kicked isn’t abuse. This isn’t a disputable position. If you assert that being kicked is abuse, you are just factually incorrect.

Premade or not premade is irrelevant.

Again, there is no such thing as an abusive vote kick.

It’s not necessarily likely that you’ll ever group with the people who kicked you again at random, but you can always ignore the people in the party you got kicked from to make sure it doesn’t happen.

Here is a hint: it was the people in your party.

Yes, because no one has ever abused the vote kick system.

You can already do this. Ignore everyone in the party you were with, or in the example you gave, ignore everyone except the person who warned you.

No, it can’t. Utilizing the vote kick system to vote someone out of the group is using the system as intended, and not griefing. This is not a disputable position. If you believe that kicking someone is griefing you are factually incorrect.

Anyone who fails to complete the dungeon with their group deserves the 30 minute debuff. What exactly are you struggling with here?

2 Likes

THis could be solved in other ways

  1. Stop debuffing people who are kicked THE FIRST TIME during a day, period. I would argue that the “some dungeons people don’t want to do” thing is kinda outdated given that most dungeons are now pretty consistent with complexity and length. I also argue that if people dont want to do a certain dungeon, whotf cares? Also, the whole “holding the group hostage” thing is such an over-exaggerated way of putting it.

  2. Start the debuffs at 15 minutes on kick #2 during the same day.

  3. Reset the kick punishment system when dailies reset in the morning


  1. Ratchet up the limit on kicks per user account on a daily basis as well (right now you have to kick people like 4-5 times throughout a day to start seeing any limits put on you which I would argue isn’t exactly fair.

Your ideas create a situation where misbehaving to get kicked is preferable to leaving. That is fundamentally flawed.

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was it the adds in SMBG that only spawn if you step on those runes on the floor? because if it was, i ignore them too if people step on them.

The spirits aren’t difficult to deal with as a DPS for the timewalking however. No it was an elite that killed me that followed me all the way to the third boss. It was on me for over 4 minutes. The tank seen it, but did not care.

so? I guess I just dont see the issue.
You people get a little bit of power and it goes to your head.
The amount of complaint threads went through the roof when they removed any protection from the debuff when leaving after the first boss. The debuff is a stupid heavy-handed system that doesn’t need to be as strict as it is.

Instead of focusing on changing parameters, they just start punishing people instead.
We dont need more punishments, we need a better game.

When getting kicked is better than leaving, it incentivizes people behaving in ways that will get them kicked. Typing things in chat to make people angry or deliberately wiping the group repeatedly is not behavior that should be encouraged.

This was a response to all of the complaint threads that people were abandoning Ara-Kara after the first boss to farm the trinket. People justify self serving behavior that harms other people with such rationalizations as “Why should I stay to finish if there’s nothing else there I want?” “There’s no punishment for leaving after the first boss, so it’s fine.”

Now there’s a punishment. It’s heavy handed because the player base is often selfish and rude and doesn’t respond to anything except punishments.

The game isn’t the issue, it’s peoples’ bad behavior. We don’t need a better game, we need better people.

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